Sinking exercise

A collection of links to internal martial arts videos. Serious martial arts videos ONLY. Joke videos go to Off the Topic.

Re: Sinking exercise

Postby kenneth fish on Wed Oct 22, 2008 1:06 pm

Ray - I do something similar in a series of exercises called mian quan cao - the basic exercises from cotton boxing. Our horse is wider and more "square" (thighs externally rotated so that the center line of the patella lines up with the longitudenal midline of the foot) and our back is kept more vertical. It seems to me that to do the exercise properly you already need to know how to song kua etc.

FWIW, I think it is easier and faster to learn song kua et al in a seated position - I showed the basics to Fong and the gang when I was in SF earlier this year - once you know how to song kua and so on, it is easier to incorporate into any form, stance, or exercise.

KJF
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
kenneth fish
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Sinking exercise

Postby Kelley Graham on Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:17 pm

kenneth fish wrote:Please re-read what you quoted - I did not say the exercise is a clean and jerk - I said it is a good exercise if you are training to do the clean and jerk - more specifically, that part where you 1) grab the weight in the low squat position and 2) use leverage and inertia to bring it to chest height while still in a low squat (this is quite different from the olympic version).

Again, while this exercise may do some very beneficial things, it is not, in my view, training song kua etc - which results from relaxing the muscles of the pelvic basin and maintaining a relaxed, dynamic interplay between the iliopsoas and the extensor groups.

ALL the joints of the body should remain "open" and actively "engaged" all throughout the duration of this exercise - getting down, breathing, and then getting back up. Although the breathing at "the bottom" is the focal point of the exercise, you cannot safely just "park" yourself down there for a long time for the breath phase and then get back up - you will tend to "disengage" something and diminish the effects of the exercise.

The whole point of this exercise is to keep the entire body - skeletal system, muscular system, tendons, and fascia totally "engaged" during the exercise, so that the breath can do its work in "harmonizing" and "unifying" all of them with a specific, breath-induced energetic "wave".


Could you perhaps use anatomic and mechanical terms? I find the explanation less than clear.


the exercise uses the breath to raise the weight, not the 'levers and pulleys'. the organizing 'engine' of power is the breath... the text supplied by michael phillips describes the 'feel' of a successful repetition. the weight 'floats' up and floats down... there is no overtly muscular 'effort' or use of momentum. i do not swing the weight or compress my system to produce 'momentum' to raise the weight. it does not accelerate and decelerate. it starts, smoothly goes up and stops. if i used mechanical or anatomical terms, i would be leading you down a path to a different exercise. :)

thanks for your thoughts and comments,
Kelley Graham
Website - https://ucbprogram.com
Follow - https://ucb.social/@imklg
User avatar
Kelley Graham
Administrator
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 3:32 pm
Location: Tucson AZ

Re: Sinking exercise

Postby kenneth fish on Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:38 pm

Perhaps you could post the text that you mentioned - I don't seem to be able to access your chat board.

BTW, even using breathing to initiate force involves acceleration, deceleration, and the movement of large and small muscles.
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
kenneth fish
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Sinking exercise

Postby Kelley Graham on Wed Oct 22, 2008 2:54 pm

kenneth fish wrote:Perhaps you could post the text that you mentioned - I don't seem to be able to access your chat board.

BTW, even using breathing to initiate force involves acceleration, deceleration, and the movement of large and small muscles.


i understand that physics applies... it's just that the feeling of this exercise is very different than normal weight lifting - a surge of intense muscular effort with maximally compressed breath, then a 'glide' as you reposition your mass to better leverage the weight. the entire point of the exercise for the beginner is to smoothly open the qua, yao and perineum, using the breath in a coordinated manner.

i posted the video on tcclist because on that thread, someone had derisively said that the drill using a chair or book was suitable only for beginners. it's a foundational exercise in our yang shao hao tradition. (please save the lineage queen jokes. i include my lineage it because i rarely post on this forum due to time.) dimitri who is a member of the tcclist on yahoo had posted it here as a cool internal stretch. i've tried to do my best to follow up, but i just don't have time to do the topic justice. maybe a quick signup over there to peruse the entire thread will do a better job than me reposting here.

best regards,
Kelley Graham
Website - https://ucbprogram.com
Follow - https://ucb.social/@imklg
User avatar
Kelley Graham
Administrator
 
Posts: 526
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 3:32 pm
Location: Tucson AZ

Re: Sinking exercise

Postby Ray on Wed Oct 22, 2008 5:14 pm

kenneth fish wrote:Ray - I do something similar in a series of exercises called mian quan cao - the basic exercises from cotton boxing. Our horse is wider and more "square" (thighs externally rotated so that the center line of the patella lines up with the longitudenal midline of the foot) and our back is kept more vertical. It seems to me that to do the exercise properly you already need to know how to song kua etc.

FWIW, I think it is easier and faster to learn song kua et al in a seated position - I showed the basics to Fong and the gang when I was in SF earlier this year - once you know how to song kua and so on, it is easier to incorporate into any form, stance, or exercise.

KJF


Thanks. Interestingly I have seen that particular exercise performed with a wider stance and with a vertical back - it just goes to show the ecumenical aspect of power development. If you have a video of your seated basics exercise, I would appreciate seeing it. Ray
Ray
Santi
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 2:09 pm

Re: Sinking exercise

Postby Brady on Thu Oct 23, 2008 8:49 am

Ray wrote:If you have a video of your seated basics exercise, I would appreciate seeing it. Ray


Seconded, I am interested.
Brady
Wuji
 
Posts: 1055
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 4:49 pm

Re: Sinking exercise

Postby kenneth fish on Thu Oct 23, 2008 9:12 am

Its not the sort of thing that lends itself to video - its really something you have to be shown, and have a partner provide a bit of force to give feedback. It takes all of about 5 minutes to learn, the rest is incorporating it into whatever you do.
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.
Friedrich Nietzsche
User avatar
kenneth fish
Great Old One
 
Posts: 2518
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:19 pm

Re: Sinking exercise

Postby Ray on Thu Oct 23, 2008 10:41 am

Alright, I think I understand where you're coming from. Maybe you can show it to me if we ever meet in person. Thanks again Kenneth.
Ray
Santi
 
Posts: 48
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 2:09 pm

Previous

Return to Video Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests