Sinking exercise

[Dmitri]

A cool "internal stretching" exercise, (re-posted from a different forum):



This is probably close to what some people were saying re. how kettlebells help in opening kua, -- just need to make sure and do it 'internally' enough , i.e. take your time, relax and breathe into the kua area to really help open things up.
Anyway, hope some will find this interesting.

(Also, if I'm not mistaken, Kelley is a member here on EF.)

[Ian]

Weights?!?!

Kill it! Kill it!

[Brady]

Looks like

I wonder though, what the point of looking downwards is in the one you posted Dmitri

[Dmitri]

Weights?!?!

Kill it! Kill it!

It does not have to be done with weights.

Looks like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDoLKfxPXy4

Having had a hands-on exposure to a version of that exercise, I have to say that it is much, MUCH more involved and covers a LOT more than just opening your kua.
Thanks for posting BTW, I've been looking for a clip like that.

I wonder though, what the point of looking downwards is in the one you posted Dmitri

I dunno, but if I had to guess, I would say he was trying to help elongate the spine.

[Brady]

I dunno, but if I had to guess, I would say he was trying to help elongate the spine.

That would be my guess too. Also seems as though it is moving the weight a bit further back by allowing him to bring his shoulders back a bit more

[Kelley Graham]

here's some important points from my taiji teacher. michael phillips. by way of explanation, i train with ashe higgs and am intensely involved with i-liq chuan on michael phillips suggestion.

i'm including the thread link as well if you want to see more. There's a good amount of q and a on the thread. It won't waste your time.
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/TC ... sage/58164

The weight is in exactly the right place to provoke the correct alignment and conditions in the perineum.

***************quote********************************************
On Oct 21, 2008, at 4:34 AM, Vsevolod Vlaskin wrote:

> Could anyone, especially Michael, comment on the deep knee bends in Michael's exercise? I tried it and I can sit in it very low for quite a while without any pain, tiredness or exertion in my lower body or legs (it's my upper body and breathing that gives up and needs more alignment). Do I expose my knees to the risk of damage without realizing or feeling it?

Done "Exactly As I Described", we have never had anyone develop knee problems from this exercise, Seva - but the key words here are "Exactly As I Described".

For instance, we do not "sit in very low for quite a while" - the instructions specify taking from 3-10 deep breaths to the perineum, and then using the counter-weight to assist you in rising back up, and that's all; ten breaths, maximum, and then back up. Six reps, maximum, for any one session, although one can do several sessions in any given day.

You can also put the chair down and move around a little bit between reps; we frequently walk thru a "figure eight" pattern 3 times between reps, to make sure that everything is "released" and "open".

Getting down, breathing, and then getting back up in a timely manner are all essential parts of the exercise; if you sit and breathe for too long, you will tend to "dis-engage" your knees, and it is then very difficult to "re-engage" them in such extremis. This could lead to injury.

ALL the joints of the body should remain "open" and actively "engaged" all throughout the duration of this exercise - getting down, breathing, and then getting back up. Although the breathing at "the bottom" is the focal point of the exercise, you cannot safely just "park" yourself down there for a long time for the breath phase and then get back up - you will tend to "disengage" something and diminish the effects of the exercise.

The whole point of this exercise is to keep the entire body - skeletal system, muscular system, tendons, and fascia totally "engaged" during the exercise, so that the breath can do its work in "harmonizing" and "unifying" all of them with a specific, breath-induced energetic "wave".

The effects of the exercise are CUMULATIVE over time, they cannot be speeded up by staying down longer, or adjusting any of the other variables.
It is very important to do the exercise exactly as described.

I feel it's very important to emphasize that this exercise is not an "endurance contest"; just get down there, find the optimum alignment, get your ten breaths in, and then get back up.

If you hold the "wuji" posture for 2-3 minutes after you finish your reps, you will feel the energy start to "run" thru the meridians; just let the energy do whatever it wants, but stay alert and observant throughout this initial phase.

I wrote all the above for a "general audience"; as for yourself specifically, Seva, it sounds like you already have discovered some interesting things, and are on your way to discovering more. This exercise kind of "blossoms" over time and reveals more aspects of itself as one continues with it; I somewhat envy those of you that are adventurous enough to embark on this voyage of discovery - something can be really "new" only once.

Again, good luck with this, Seva, and I welcome any further questions.

All the Best,
Michael

[Kelley Graham]

I wonder though, what the point of looking downwards is in the one you posted Dmitri

The looking down is to ensure that you are relaxed all along the spine. you ''release the corners of the forehead forward and down'.

you will find that holding the head up produces unwanted tension, interfering with the breath. This exercise is designed to be started with a kitchen chair or stool. Something light that is easy to balance. I posted the video, originally, because someone suggested that is was only for beginners. be careful if you try it.

best regards,

kelley g

[Brady]

Thanks for that! It always amazes me that amount of similarities in such diverse branches of single man exercise. This sounds in many ways like what I've heard in the past

[Kelley Graham]

Thanks for that! It always amazes me that amount of similarities in such diverse branches of single man exercise. This sounds in many ways like what I've heard in the past

the human body is the body... methods for discovering it's natural power can take many forms. thanks for your comments.

best,

kelley g

[ashe]

hey kelley, you're famous!

[C.J.Wang]

Hmm, I agree that the exercise with weights shown in the first clip CAN help open the kua with the added weight pushing downward, but without the right intent it'd be just like a weight lifter holding a heavy barbell in a low squat.

[kenneth fish]

I think this (the weight exercise) is a great exercise if you are training to do an old fashioned clean and jerk (not the olympic type). As for song kua, kai kua, or yuan dang, this is not an exercise that will be of much benefit - I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what those are and how to achieve them. Also, IMO, it would be safer to use a 30 pound body bar or a barbell, with a partner to spot.

[Kelley Graham]

I think this (the weight exercise) is a great exercise if you are training to do an old fashioned clean and jerk (not the olympic type). As for song kua, kai kua, or yuan dang, this is not an exercise that will be of much benefit - I think it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of what those are and how to achieve them. Also, IMO, it would be safer to use a 30 pound body bar or a barbell, with a partner to spot.

have you tried it with a chair or book as in the 'important points' post? the 'lift' is most precisely NOT a clean and jerk.

best regards,

[kenneth fish]

Please re-read what you quoted - I did not say the exercise is a clean and jerk - I said it is a good exercise if you are training to do the clean and jerk - more specifically, that part where you 1) grab the weight in the low squat position and 2) use leverage and inertia to bring it to chest height while still in a low squat (this is quite different from the olympic version).

Again, while this exercise may do some very beneficial things, it is not, in my view, training song kua etc - which results from relaxing the muscles of the pelvic basin and maintaining a relaxed, dynamic interplay between the iliopsoas and the extensor groups.

ALL the joints of the body should remain "open" and actively "engaged" all throughout the duration of this exercise - getting down, breathing, and then getting back up. Although the breathing at "the bottom" is the focal point of the exercise, you cannot safely just "park" yourself down there for a long time for the breath phase and then get back up - you will tend to "disengage" something and diminish the effects of the exercise.

The whole point of this exercise is to keep the entire body - skeletal system, muscular system, tendons, and fascia totally "engaged" during the exercise, so that the breath can do its work in "harmonizing" and "unifying" all of them with a specific, breath-induced energetic "wave".

Could you perhaps use anatomic and mechanical terms? I find the explanation less than clear.

[Ray]

Kenneth,
What do you think of the exercise Brady posted above? Do you think it has any benefit in training the kua, pelvic basin, iliopsoas, etc?