Wu Ba Ji 12 roads?

[SPJ]

http://www.cn8j.com/ht_world/chanpin1/jt.asp?id=275

http://www.wushu2008.cn/viewthread.php? ... a=page%3D1

The legend said Wu Xiu Feng passed down 12 roads (Tang Zi 趟子) in his late life (1960's).

Some said that it is not true. There were only 3 roads that Wu taught his students when he was young. There were no such 12 roads or high level (advanced) Ba Ji.

Some said that it is not something new. Wu compiled 12 grades/levels of practice sets. Based on 3 levels (high, mid. low) and left right front rear (4 directions) so 3 x 4 = 12.

They are still consisted of 6 big opening: Ding Bao Dan Ti Kua Chan.

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a lot of speculations of the existence of 12 roads.

Wu Xiu Feng close disciples in Tian Jing included Tian Jin Zhong etc.

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I guess we would never know.

[SPJ]

http://www.cn8j.com/ht_world/chanpin1/cl.asp?id=296

Ba Ji Dui Lian from the same website.

[SPJ]

http://www.cn8j.com/ht_world/chanpin1/cl.asp?id=297

Ba Ji staff.

[SPJ]

http://www.cn8j.com/ht_world/chanpin1/cl.asp?id=298

Green dragon swordplay.

[SPJ]

http://www.cn8j.com/ht_world/chanpin1/cl.asp?id=299

Tiger head hook.

[Jingang]

We do have that many (I'm from Tian jinzhong's lineage). Although I do not practice Baji quan (only learned the 3rd and 4th small frames and the 12 elbows) I have seen many of them during my practice with my teacher.

We must not forget that Wu xiufeng spent most of his life in Tianjin where he taught many students till his death.

Here is Qing long jian (green dragon sword) by the late Grandmaster Tian jinzhong (６８ｙｏ):
http://www.cn8j.com/ht_world/chanpin1/mf.asp?id=274

[SPJ]

Many Thanks for the update.

[Ray]

SPJ,
Can you elaborate on what these different roads/levels refer to? Are they different ways of practicing the forms, additional skills, etc? TIA
Ray

[SPJ]

Xiao Jia was originally consisted of 16 postures.

Wu Xiu Feng did some research and compiled 24 postures which are currently practiced at Meng Cun.

http://kings011.blogcn.com/diary,207413685.shtml

Wu also compiled 12 roads of Xiao Jia.

Some said that it is not necessary.

http://www.cnkungfu.org/data/2006/1019/ ... 1763_2.htm

Some said that Li Shu Wen found out that some "weakness" in Ba Ji so Li encouraged students to learn Pi Gua also to compensate the "loopholes" in Ba Ji.

Wu incorporated some moves from Pi Gua into 12 roads of Xiao Jia. This way the students only have to learn Xiao Jia.

There are a lot of repeats, so usually people learn only 2 or 3 roads.

http://tw.myblog.yahoo.com/jw!6spXwPyfE ... fid=6&sc=1

Wu style Ba Ji people in the forum may chime in anytime.

[SPJ]

I ran into some classics about the 12 roads but I lost the link and could not find it anymore.

However, I still has the link to 12 roads of Xing Pi.

http://www.wushuweb.com/forum/MINI/Defa ... 0-0-a-.htm

[taiwandeutscher]

We do have that many (I'm from Tian jinzhong's lineage). Although I do not practice Baji quan (only learned the 3rd and 4th small frames and the 12 elbows) I have seen many of them during my practice with my teacher.

We must not forget that Wu xiufeng spent most of his life in Tianjin where he taught many students till his death.

Here is Qing long jian (green dragon sword) by the late Grandmaster Tian jinzhong (６８ｙｏ):
http://www.cn8j.com/ht_world/chanpin1/mf.asp?id=274

This was a nice sword performance. Very nice tassel play, all in all really impressive.

The other vids of weapons of the site didn't impress that much, though!

[SPJ]

SPJ,
Can you elaborate on what these different roads/levels refer to? Are they different ways of practicing the forms, additional skills, etc? TIA
Ray

1. Some said that there are a lot of repeats. So they are not necessary.

2. The person in the first clip said that they are actually application oriented. So instead of 12 roads, we may call them 12 grades or levels of practice/training. Meaning they are all necessary.

3. The bottomline is that only a few people learned and know about the whole 12 roads. Most people (including me) are in the clouds or do not know much about them. Thus, the ongoing debate in Ba Ji circles in China and Taiwan.

[Ray]

Thanks SPJ. Sounds too ethereal for me. Does/has the person on the first clip demonstrate the physical difference in the different levels of practice? Is this something that is discernable to an observer or is it internal to the practioner?

[SPJ]

There are several Wu or Meng Cun Ba Ji players in the forum. They would know more.

the first and second road are almost the same except a few moves.

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the fifth road has more circular/chan si moves and a lot different from the 1st and 2nd road.

http://www.tianxiawuji.cn/video.php?vid=1976

[SPJ]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-QqBZD7 ... re=related

the 1st road.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g4iIFWX ... re=related

the 2nd road.