dynamic joint breaks

[middleway]

Vlad has released a vid on dynamic joint breaks, something that i always noticed in his demo's ... it seems to be a staple of the work he does and i like it alot, very sneeky! It is similar to some of the work i trained in Daito Ryu.

The only thing i notice here is that it is quite reliant on extension on the part of the attacker, as with alot of Systema demo's, how it would work against very short work (touch or inch power) would be interesting to see.



thoughts.

cheers
Chris

[GrahamB]

I like Vlad's stuff, but man, I wish my training partners fell over that easy

I think if that kick at .22 was from somebody who meant it Vlad would have a broken arm I don't see how you can block a kick like that with your arm and make it work. But maybe I'm just too low-level to see

[middleway]

Sure i agree. There is quite a bit of co-operation in Systema IME. Its fairly ingrained in the students to fall down i think.... but its fun ... even i got caught up in it when i went to a seminar with Vlad! lol. Made a mental note not too the next time however and wasn't taken down ... much to the annoyance of Mikhails Son! They are a good crowd though and know how to have fun in training ... which is important.

Having met Vlad, the guy has something special (that i havnt seen in anyone else from the style that i have met) so who knows about that kick ... your probably right ... but who knows... lol.

cheers
Chris

[GrahamB]

Agreed. I'm a big fan of slow/soft training as a great way of improving your skill in Tai Chi. However, I think the danger inherent in it if you train that way too much is that you become overly compliant as a result, and also that you start to ignore attacks that would have floored you done with proper intent, and just attack back in a way that would be impossible if that was a real attack. I think that incident at .22 is an example of that - he just brushes away a kick with his arm and it only works because there's nothing in the kick.

At least, that's how it looks to me - he may have a special magical amulet concealed about his person that wards off evil, or... something

[Ian]

I've never trained with the Toronto or Moscow groups, so I can't comment. All I know is that people definitely don't take dives at Valentin's, despite what it may look like.

Often I feel like what's shown in the Toronto and Moscow clips wouldn't work if the attackers were a bit more stoic and a little less delicate (I won't name names), but then I remember that I've been 100% pwned by Valentin and his students a number of times, by techniques that didn't look like much to me and wouldn't look like anything on film. I prefer to keep my 2 cents in my pocket.

But it's a valid criticism. To keep any style alive, you need the clean, the dirty, and reality. I'm guessing 'clean' work sells well and is better for instructional dvds, such as this one.

[RobP]

I think you have to realise when someone is trying to teach you something, when you are "testing out" and also when people are trying to minimise injury - to self or partner

cheers

Rob

[middleway]

Agreed. Thats why i said i like the work being shown ... it is clearly for demonstration to teach the principle and i am no doubt of Vlads skills.

But the reliance on extension for this work still rings true regardless of speed, intent or motivation etc, its just the nature of the joints being manipulated.

Cheers Rob,

Chris

[kreese]

I've seen enough (video) demos of faster work to convince me that the training method scales up to real-time if you keep it real yourself. For example, in the Alex Kostic thread, the companion video to the one Ian posted showed Alex working with much faster kicks. It also behooves "uke" to stay soft in order to learn how to deal with the counters to his attack. Again, it depends on the person to put the different elements of training together into something "really real".

[DeusTrismegistus]

Agreed. I'm a big fan of slow/soft training as a great way of improving your skill in Tai Chi. However, I think the danger inherent in it if you train that way too much is that you become overly compliant as a result, and also that you start to ignore attacks that would have floored you done with proper intent, and just attack back in a way that would be impossible if that was a real attack. I think that incident at .22 is an example of that - he just brushes away a kick with his arm and it only works because there's nothing in the kick.

At least, that's how it looks to me - he may have a special magical amulet concealed about his person that wards off evil, or... something

Depends on how that kick was supposed to be done. He looked to me like he was ding a front thrusting ball kick which his block would work fine against, if it was supposed to be more of a bent leg soccer kick then not so much.

I like the vid. I think it has a tendency to look a little haphazard due to the attackers lack of intent though. Learning how to move slowly and softly but with intent really helps make this type of training more real IMO.