marvin8 wrote:Boxing has the "shoulder roll." Would you consider this the same as "lu" (rollback) and "ji" (press)?
Would anyone say tai chi's rollback press is a different concept, excluding the power generation, alignment, structure? If different, how would it be used in sparring/competition?
I see boxing and MMA as using similar concepts to IMA (e.g., handling incoming force), in an efficient form (e.g., small, fast movements). Also, the same concepts are trained differently (e.g., push hands vs pad work).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xZbdCTDBRcmarvin8 wrote:Here's a boxer that keeps his feet in place, softens his back hip transferring weight to back leg, moving his center offline avoiding the attack, then shifts his weight forward finishing opponent:
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Shoulder roll and Rollback are similar but different.
The shoulder roll is sweet.
Especially the way the Mayweather’s use it.
Catching the jab or the right hand that’s on the way in is similar.
It’s great for defense.
And then, quickly countering to make them pay for that miss. Love it!
One difference with rollback is -- defending and attacking the incoming with one motion.
You’re trying to give them a little (or lot) of trouble on the way in and also countering on the way out.
So, on the way in you trouble them by going after the elbow to break it, stress it, etc.
or Tugging or Nudging, or snatching them out of the rear leg.
(making the rear foot light or come off the ground).
I'd say mentally you are sorta hunting that punch, you're actively looking to draw it in.
In practice, if they don't throw it, you ward them until they resist so you can draw them out so you can apply rollback motion.
And still leaves me with the counter that makes them pay for the miss.
If I don’t nudge or tug the incoming then it leaves the opponent to continue a forward attack of their choosing.
And you can see the result of that in the 1st video in this thread where the Taiji guy is running from contact.
He also lacks lateral movement, but that’s not your question.
That's a quick answer off the top of my head
cause of course there's nuances to both methods.