the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

If he focuses on form he needs to focus a little more
His form is terrible
Just because people train with him and call him a master it doesn't make it true

I think the fact this has gone so viral on the Chinese web is good for MA in China. The MMA guy has since continued his challenge offer, and so I'm sure in the near future we will see more people stepping up.

There will always be the frog-in-the-well guys doing their push hands in the park and convincing themselves they have enough "internal power" to beat "the external styles". But I do hope this will spur a change in trends here.

I do wonder about the Taiji guys credentials. In the CCTV documentary he makes a lot of claims: he is a recognised Muay Thai coach, ex wrestler, and he talks about how he spent everyday sparring with his Taiji teacher, learning how useless his so-called "western approach to combat" was.

Well, in the fight, you can obviously see he was totally overwhelmed and had no idea how to deal with the flurry of aggressive punches. Even a few sessions of full contact sparring is enough to overcome that kind of panic response.

chenyaolong wrote:I think the fact this has gone so viral on the Chinese web is good for MA in China. The MMA guy has since continued his challenge offer, and so I'm sure in the near future we will see more people stepping up.

There will always be the frog-in-the-well guys doing their push hands in the park and convincing themselves they have enough "internal power" to beat "the external styles". But I do hope this will spur a change in trends here.

You might want to direct that at all CMA styles....

some convincing themselves that fighting like a bug works.

As far as push hands, I would suggest that you try it,,,,some of the "push hands" guys in the parks are not so nice
as noted push hands is not something I agree with as most practice it...

windwalker wrote:

chenyaolong wrote:I think the fact this has gone so viral on the Chinese web is good for MA in China. The MMA guy has since continued his challenge offer, and so I'm sure in the near future we will see more people stepping up.

There will always be the frog-in-the-well guys doing their push hands in the park and convincing themselves they have enough "internal power" to beat "the external styles". But I do hope this will spur a change in trends here.

You might want to direct that at all CMA styles....

some convincing themselves that fighting like a bug works.

As far as push hands, I would suggest that you try it,,,,some of the "push hands" guys in the parks are not so nice
as noted push hands is not something I agree with as most practice it...

Mantis is not "fighting like a bug"

I've pushed with quite a few people before. Most of them are good in the safety net of push hands. Maybe there is some good stuff out there... somewhere... but Id rather use my time to train something I know I can get the results I want.

Safety net of push hands, could also be said safety net of CMA. Which for the most part remains unchanged and unchallenged. The fact that many use push hands as some type of gauge of combat ability is actually part of the problem.

Not defending or promoting anything only view the clip within its own context.

I am well aware of praying mantis it's fighting theories and style s. The creation theory of it alludes to the fact that the founder found inspiration in the Mantis and movement and tactics.

Thinking back I favored lama hop gar, said to be based on the movements of the crane and ape as a basis for much of its thinking and tactics employed.

The teacher lost. Many in his community seem to feel he has some skill and ability. For them what else would matter.

windwalker wrote:"C.J.W." My guess is, like the vast majority of Taiji guys, he only focuses on forms and PH."

Push Hands as it's currently practice has changed many aspects of the way taiji is used or could be used. By making the training for a skillset competitive the larger objective​ that the skill-set enables is lost. This is not something unique to taiji happens in other styles and systems​.

You mention the MMA guy was mediocre is there any information on his training or record?

The MMA guy, Xu Xiaodong, is sort of like the Chinese Joe Rogan/Dana White -- an MMA promoter, owner, and commentator. He introduced MMA to China by opening up a gym in Beijing and establishing the first MMA organization in the country. His background is in sanda and I do not think he even has an official MMA fight record.

C.J.W. wrote:The MMA guy, Xu Xiaodong, is sort of like the Chinese Joe Rogan/Dana White -- an MMA promoter, owner, and commentator. He introduced MMA to China by opening up a gym in Beijing and establishing the first MMA organization in the country. His background is the sanda and I do not think he even has an official MMA fight record.

thank you , just wondered

Didn't seem like there would be any upside for the teacher to accept.
Always find it strange when they do.

The story goes on, it seems. Newest out of China:
The son of Wang Xi'an (chen village) wants to pick up the challenge, but will only send his Sanda (!) trained top disciple. Xu doesn't want to fight a Sanda guy, as he has no beef with Sanda, wants to send his own professional Sanda guy. Xu only wants to fight Wang Haujun himself.
Funny times!

Good it only exposes him as a promoter, and allows TCMA to evolve more in a different format.

One that is more sustainable due to the format itself and not the natural talents of some of the top practitioners in historical times

I would imagine there are other TCMA Challengers out there not public that the promoter will not engage with in private.

moral of the lesson: get over talking about your theory of Peng jin too much and get to real fight training.

Some new development:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/thefajinproject/permalink/1374389569266761/
Especially the shoelace explanation in the comments is pretty pathetic

In the past on this forum...I'm fairly certain I made mention that if a TC guy could fight, he also had HARD style training when he was younger. I.e. usually not just Tai Chi alone. It was met with opposition...dang Tai chi almightyists!!!

I have written on other forums in the past and others have said before me that: Tai Chi makes whatever or other art you do = Better. But just Tai Chi Alone would not be complete enough...it was also poo pooed.

Oh well...

if a TC guy could fight, he also had HARD style training when he was younger.

This might be true because people who want to fight have probably tried other arts before coming to tcc. There will also be a few practitioners who have learned nothing but tcc all their lives. But, then it will depend on what they do in their tcc class. Not all schools focus solely on forms and push hands. However, those that do are usually populated by people who see the value in tcc because they see what those schools offer and have the desire and experience to want it.

Otoh, people who haven't had much experience in martial arts that spar might be attracted to the least martial-looking tcc styles. And, there will be plenty of potential students who don't want to learn to fight at all. For me, this is a buyer beware issue. Millions of people practice a tcc that makes them feel better but has little martial value for them.