CCTV 10 Xing Yi Clip

[Bob]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1pBHkaO ... re=related

[Andy_S]

I really liked that clip - most particularly, for the way it breaks down how to cross the opponent (at around 2:57).

This is something that doesn't seem to be emphasized in Hsing-I two-man forms, which tend to be (to my uneducated eyes, at least) to be a linear back and forward motion, with a lot of hand-slapping blocks - but no lateral movement, and no crossing. Even in the gay man's martial art, the basic single-handed, non-step PH crosses the opponent; likewise the basic apps of Bagua's SPH.

Any HsingI peeps care to comment?

[GrahamB]

Andy,

I dislike the 2-man forms like 'An Shen Pao' for the same reason you outlined - too much slapping blocking actions. If you stop to think about it, it's not anything like what Hsing-I is meant to be like.

There is a reason for this though, when you dig a bit deeper - (now prepare for another bit of controversy and drama, as I yet again reveal my 'woeful ignorance' ) In An Shen Pao, only one of the guys is doing 'true' Hsing-I - the other is doing a succession of 'stupid' hard blocks and attacks to give the other person something to work with.

My preference is much more for a free-flow type exchange where you don't follow a set pattern, and both people are doing 'proper' defence and attack. That's much, much harder to do than a set pattern, but I think you get a lot more meaningful practice out of it. A bit like the Filipino weapon work - you start with a pattern, then introduce variations, and built up until it becomes free. Moving from a solid fixed 'form' into free flow, but with the advantage of not losing your technique along the way.

G - waits for the shit storm to appear.

[middleway]

the thing about crossing in Xing Yi is its tighter than you see in SPC or Taiji IMO .... Taiji leads the opponents centre, Bagua moves around a centre, Xing yi goes through the centre with clever lines so it is tighter than the other two ... more 'in'.

So in the 2 man sets for instance it may seem like its all backy forthy with no sidey sidey but there is lots of crossy crossy coily coily spirally spirally ....

hope that clears everything up!

The two man stuff as i learnt it was very much an exchange of 2 xing yi people, thats what keeps it going, otherwise it would be first move .... KTFO .... Like i say there is alot of subtle line changes and redirections in the two man form, which arent so visible on a video.

oh and graham .... your wrong ..... just to keep the force in balance from my previous agreement with you!

cheers
Chris

[GrahamB]

Have you ever done An Shen Pao Chris? I was referring to that specifically.

You can see the start of An shen Pao at 4.30 here (at least I'm pretty sure that's An Shen Pao - looks very similar to the version I learned, but everyone does it slightly differently....):

http://jp.youtube.com/watch?v=-6E1cR8to ... re=related

Notice the hard arm blocks in the form, then there's some clips of Master Hong doing applications - notice the complete lack of hard blocks.

b.t.w. thanks for posting that clip Bob, I like what he's doing - looks nice to me.

[middleway]

sorry when you said ...

I dislike the 2-man forms like 'An Shen Pao'

it appeared you meant you dislike the set 2 man forms. Ive not done An Shen Pao.

from looking at that your right about the strange attacks etc ....

peace.

[GrahamB]

Sorry, I wasn't making myself clear. I wouldn't worry about not knowing An Shen Pao - you're not missing much IMHO!

[middleway]

no worries dude .... i aint ... still figuring out how to do Pi chuan properly!!! lol!

[GrahamB]

Me too - Pi Chuan is a bitch, 'the first thing you learn, and the last thing you learn'

[Josealb]

Everything in An Shen Pao is taken from the elements and the animals. If An Shen Pao is just a mixture of dumb blocks....that says something about everyhing else.

[GrahamB]

It's not the techniques, it's the way they're used.

[C.J.Wang]

It is said that crossing fist is the mother of all fists in Xinyi, and that at high level, crossing power should be present in all Xinyi movements.

If you've touched hands with a Xingyi guy who really knows what he's doing, you'd notice that although his movement appear straight line, there's always this solid "wedging"(crossing) power that seems to deflect all incoming strikes easily.

[Felipe Bidó]

It is said that crossing fist is the mother of all fists in Xinyi, and that at high level, crossing power should be present in all Xinyi movements.

If you've touched hands with a Xingyi guy who really knows what he's doing, you'd notice that although his movement appear straight line, there's always this solid "wedging"(crossing) power that seems to deflect all incoming strikes easily.

Great

[kenneth fish]

Andy,

I dislike the 2-man forms like 'An Shen Pao' for the same reason you outlined - too much slapping blocking actions. If you stop to think about it, it's not anything like what Hsing-I is meant to be like.

There is a reason for this though, when you dig a bit deeper - (now prepare for another bit of controversy and drama, as I yet again reveal my 'woeful ignorance' ) In An Shen Pao, only one of the guys is doing 'true' Hsing-I - the other is doing a succession of 'stupid' hard blocks and attacks to give the other person something to work with.

If you are "just slap blocking", then it is an indication that something is lacking. The open hand blocks are an expression of "luoshou" (falling hand) and "fushou" (protecting hand) - there should be a combination of downward and pulling force, as well as adhering ("sticking") force in the open hand blocks. An Shen Pao, done properly, is a fast reactive set with sticking, following, and body placement (shen fa) content.

Open hand (luoshou) blocks should also contain some spring force (tanli) - as soon as the downward jerking redirection is accomplished the blocking hand springs back as a strike. This is similar to the training done on the one arm weighted dummy in the Hebei school.

[GrahamB]

I have a different opinion. Thank you for sharing yours. Personally I don't like "open hand blocks" - if I do Pi to an arm it's an attack to the arm, like a sword cut to the arm, not a "block". Also, I believe sticking and following are more at home in the world of Tai Chi, but maybe that's just me.