Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

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Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby marvin8 on Wed Dec 13, 2017 2:36 am

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Published on Dec 3, 2017:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=krUJuzZ_GFc
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby willie on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:32 am

I thought that video was pretty good. It showed that he has applications directly from the forms for many positions. This is one of the differences between someone who just operates on theories and somebody who actually knows what they're doing. Yes there are theories but those theories are supposed to be coupled to understanding and the understanding is application. What I would like to see more of in that video that he does not display is gathering into the dantian and powering the same moves that he's using with fajin. That's when the art becomes deadly.
Last edited by willie on Wed Dec 13, 2017 4:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby willie on Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:05 am

WindWalker, I seen your post. I don't know why you took it down, because it was a good question. His question was so how would he get in on a boxer? So now I would like to reply. Do you mean when he is standing in line at the grocery store or with his kids at the amusement park? In those situations limiting yourself on depending on any kind of fighter Stance is a mistake. These Arts are not uni-directional they are omnidirectional. But of course there is entering strategies, just like in every other art.
Last edited by willie on Wed Dec 13, 2017 5:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby windwalker on Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:12 am

ya, normal I don't or try not to say much if I don't agree with something on line. My mistake this time...

I had a good friend taiji bother who used to do the same type of demos with people. I would often warn him
about mistaking the assumptions made in doing them...Everything he did was from a point that negated a couple of steps
to reach that point, closing the distance, or some might say bridging the gap, to get to the contact point. ect, ect.

Just felt the demo, was kind of misleading in watching the clip....not much more to say on it...its a demo...
guess it kinda reminded me of my taiji bother.

There is no fighting stance, ect.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby willie on Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:23 am

windwalker wrote:ya, normal I don't or try not to say much if I don't agree with something on line. My mistake this time...

I had a good friend taiji bother who used to do the same type of demos with people. I would often warn him
about mistaking the assumptions made in doing them...Everything he did was from a point that negated a couple of steps
to reach that point, closing the distance, or some might say bridging the gap, to get to the contact point. ect, ect.

Just felt the demo, was kind of misleading in watching the clip....not much more to say on it...its a demo...
guess it kinda reminded me of my taiji bother.

There is no fighting stance, ect.
if you don't agree then you don't agree. It's no big deal either way. I don't feel that the demo was misleading at all. I'll tell you why. They are simply learning and practicing moves. If you go to a BJJ School you will find the same thing. People practicing moves. In all good schools there will be varying amounts of resistance, I'm sure that you know that. If too much resistance is applied to somebody who is just learning a new move or concept then they will never figure out how to apply it. But then later if not enough resistance is displayed then they will never be able to apply it in a real fight. I guess you just have to be humble and have both
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby C.J.W. on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:20 pm

I enjoyed the video for what it is: a Taiji teacher showing his understanding of silk-reeling energy and how it can be used to off-balance and throw an opponent in a common stand-up grappling position.

However, like Windwalker said, cooperative demos of this kind should always come with a caveat -- that those seemingly effortless and magical techniques will probably either fail or look much less impressive in a real physical confrontation against someone who's resisting with all their might.
Last edited by C.J.W. on Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby Tiga Pukul on Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:48 am

Yep i'm missing the entering strategy on almost all of the shown 'semi-applications'. Spiralling your way out of an incoming punch whilst standing there might give people the wrong idea that might actually work. As mentioned against wrestlers doesn't work either, let alone a decent boxer. It becomes almost funny when you just focus on looking at the attacker...they behave like puppets willing to behave properly. Good to convey a principle but you should quickly move on from that point. If you stick to long in that beginner phase you start believing that saves you on the street. The hard thing about martial art is when an actual conflict arises, not when someone extends your arm or hugs you ;-)
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby willie on Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:34 am

Tiga Pukul wrote:Yep i'm missing the entering strategy on almost all of the shown 'semi-applications'. Spiralling your way out of an incoming punch or hugs you ;-)

It's so funny I got into a confrontation at the commercial gym that I belong to not too long ago. Some big jacked dude trying to show off in front of my Asian girlfriend. Repeatedly insisting that I need his advice and his skills which came from some Japanese guy who is like an icon around here, I guess... He was talking about aiki and all kinds of crap I had him in an armbar in under 8 Seconds. Right in the middle of the floor of the commercial gym in front of about 6 of his friends. Now, if I had not trained that technique over and over again, then I would not have had anything for that situation, correct? That is the point of training with non resisting opponents. It allows a buffer for people to get better. But apparently you guys are so tough that you don't need to practice. I would go train with those guys in that video any day. Not only do they look like they have some good stuff, but they also look like they're enjoying themselves and each other's company.
Last edited by willie on Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:06 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby Tiga Pukul on Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:38 am

I see your point. Sure you need to train basics, heck basics is everything. However it depends on who you show this stuff to. If people from this seminar/training think they can defend like that on a committed fast punch then you are fooling yourself, even if you train some of these techniques 10000 times. Can it work if people start wrestling you, sure that might work.
In my experience footwork is more important than any fancy technique you can throw at your opponent. I like the BJJ phrase 'Position before submission', but prefer to use that tactic standing up as well. Why would i catch a semi-hit and spiral it out of direction if i can just be at a better position to do all that fancy stuff.
And yes having good company is important! :)
Last edited by Tiga Pukul on Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby Bao on Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:37 am

I thought it was a nice vid. Thanks for sharing.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby C.J.W. on Thu Dec 14, 2017 7:07 am

willie wrote:It's so funny I got into a confrontation at the commercial gym that I belong to not too long ago. Some big jacked dude trying to show off in front of my Asian girlfriend. Repeatedly insisting that I need his advice and his skills which came from some Japanese guy who is like an icon around here, I guess... He was talking about aiki and all kinds of crap I had him in an armbar in under 8 Seconds. Right in the middle of the floor of the commercial gym in front of about 6 of his friends. Now, if I had not trained that technique over and over again, then I would not have had anything for that situation, correct? That is the point of training with non resisting opponents. It allows a buffer for people to get better. But apparently you guys are so tough that you don't need to practice. I would go train with those guys in that video any day. Not only do they look like they have some good stuff, but they also look like they're enjoying themselves and each other's company.


No one is discrediting the importance of cooperative training here. What some of the posters and I have pointed out is that if cooperative training is all you do, then the lack of "reality checks" becomes an issue.

You mention that practicing with non-resisting opponents is the reason you were able to successfully armbar and control someone with an IMA background, but I'd venture to assume that you've also had experiences applying that move against resistance, right?

Judging by the way this teacher interacts with his students and the people we see in the video, I honestly do not think he is the type who is keen on pressure testing his skills against resisting partners. A very simple test would be to try that takedown -- which starts from a position similar to an o-soto-gari -- live on a Judo blackbelt, and see what happens.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby RobP3 on Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:02 am

True. To be fair to the guy and, to be honest, it looks likes this kind of work is as far as most of the people training with him would want to go. They want to see a few "cool applications" before they go back to doing form work and some push hands.
Last edited by RobP3 on Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby willie on Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:07 am

C.J.W. wrote:
No one is discrediting the importance of cooperative training here. What some of the posters and I have pointed out is that if cooperative training is all you do, then the lack of "reality checks" becomes an issue.

You mention that practicing with non-resisting opponents is the reason you were able to successfully armbar and control someone with an IMA background, but I'd venture to assume that you've also had experiences applying that move against resistance, right?

Judging by the way this teacher interacts with his students and the people we see in the video, I honestly do not think he is the type who is keen on pressure testing his skills against resisting partners. A very simple test would be to try that takedown -- which starts from a position similar to an o-soto-gari -- live on a Judo blackbelt, and see what happens.
that guy that I dropped in the gym that was giving me crap, represented himself as a judo black belt. he insisted that I take his card repeatedly, pointing out the name of not only himself, but his Japanese instructors name as well. Yes, I have also had a lot of resistance training. The lack of sheer skill especially in the lower end of these Arts is so apparent to me it is almost non-existent. One of the reasons why is not only does the instructors not have the proper information, but they want to go around and jump right into high resistance training. They will never acquire the real skills in that fashion. They will acquire the toughness that is all.
Last edited by willie on Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:53 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby jtan on Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:15 pm

willie wrote:I thought that video was pretty good. It showed that he has applications directly from the forms for many positions. This is one of the differences between someone who just operates on theories and somebody who actually knows what they're doing. Yes there are theories but those theories are supposed to be coupled to understanding and the understanding is application. What I would like to see more of in that video that he does not display is gathering into the dantian and powering the same moves that he's using with fajin. That's when the art becomes deadly.


It's Patrick Lee in Golden Gate Park . Patrick studied with Feng. If he put full power, there would be no students left standing. Film must be from mid 90s?
Last edited by jtan on Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sifu some Chen taijiquan applications

Postby marvin8 on Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:59 pm

jtan wrote:
willie wrote:I thought that video was pretty good. It showed that he has applications directly from the forms for many positions. This is one of the differences between someone who just operates on theories and somebody who actually knows what they're doing. Yes there are theories but those theories are supposed to be coupled to understanding and the understanding is application. What I would like to see more of in that video that he does not display is gathering into the dantian and powering the same moves that he's using with fajin. That's when the art becomes deadly.


It's Patrick Lee in Golden Gate Park . Patrick studied with Feng. If he put full power, there would be no students left standing. Film must be from mid 90s?

Thanks for the ID. I believe the film is from 2007.

Sifu Patrick Lee, http://www.pacifica-acupuncture.com/Pac ... _page.html:
Sifu Patrick Lee is an exceptional teacher and master of Chen Style Tai Ji Quan who places an emphasis on the understanding of yin & yang, opening and closing.

The road to growth is through awareness. Drills, sets, hours of practice teach nothing if repetition is the goal. Discovery comes to those who practice with honesty, awareness and attention to the teachings.

Simply put “Tai Ji Quan is moving Wu Ji”

Here are links to additional videos and articles by Sifu Patrick Lee:
https://vimeo.com/pacacu

http://www.pacifica-acupuncture.com/Pacifica/articles.html
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