Wu Wei — Teaching moments with Sifu Adam Mizner

[windwalker]

His reply was" it can only be done when someone is truly empty". Unfortunately, this is the incorrect answer. The only way to do that type of thing is to use the bows of the body. Which he was not in that case.

Can you explain what you feel he meant by "truly empty"
and contrast it with using "the bows of the body".

[willie]

His reply was" it can only be done when someone is truly empty". Unfortunately, this is the incorrect answer. The only way to do that type of thing is to use the bows of the body. Which he was not in that case.

Can you explain what you feel he meant by "truly empty"
and contrast it with using "the bows of the body".

of course I can,
You know what I'm thinking? I think that this would be a great opportunity for you to be able to express yourself and reflect upon your own understanding.

[windwalker]

[] of course I can,
You know what I'm thinking? I think that this would be a great opportunity for you to be able to express yourself and reflect upon your own understanding.

Didn't think so.
It's ok, just reflects your current understanding.

To answer a question with a question it's kind of old

[willie]

[] of course I can,
You know what I'm thinking? I think that this would be a great opportunity for you to be able to express yourself and reflect upon your own understanding.

Didn't think so.
It's ok, just reflects your current understanding.

To answer a question with a question it's kind of old

Windwalker don't make me laugh. The board is already aware that you Harbor imaginary wrongdoings from Chen Style. That's apparent. First you decide on addressing my grand teacher in a negative then you asked for me to explain the correct mechanics involved in fajin?

[windwalker]

Windwalker don't make me laugh. The board is already aware that you Harbor imaginary wrongdoings from Chen Style. That's apparent. First you decide on addressing my grand teacher in a negative then you asked for me to explain the correct mechanics involved in fajin?

That would be a no.

What I asked you about was in reference to this comment,

willie wrote:
His reply was" it can only be done when someone is truly empty". Unfortunately, this is the incorrect answer. The only way to do that type of thing is to use the bows of the body. Which he was not in that case.

trying to understand a view point expressed. What the board is aware of or not, is not relevant to this conversation.

If you don't want to comment, cant comment or do comment.

up to you....

[willie]

Windwalker don't make me laugh. The board is already aware that you Harbor imaginary wrongdoings from Chen Style. That's apparent. First you decide on addressing my grand teacher in a negative then you asked for me to explain the correct mechanics involved in fajin?

That would be a no.

What I asked you about was in reference to this comment,

willie wrote:
His reply was" it can only be done when someone is truly empty". Unfortunately, this is the incorrect answer. The only way to do that type of thing is to use the bows of the body. Which he was not in that case.

trying to understand a view point expressed. What the board is aware of or not, is not relevant to this conversation.

If you don't want to comment, cant comment or do comment.

up to you....

Wind Walker this is getting very tiring with you.

It's interesting to see you try to comment on what level I'm at, are you sure?

[windwalker]

Wind Walker this is getting very tiring with you.

It's interesting to see you try to comment on what level I'm at, are you sure?

likewise

You can comment on what others show, or say but no one is allowed to comment on
what you say or do...Did I miss something?

By not explaining your comment

willie wrote:
His reply was" it can only be done when someone is truly empty". Unfortunately, this is the incorrect answer. The only way to do that type of thing is to use the bows of the body. Which he was not in that case.

either you can't wont, or choose not to....

I do find it interesting on how something is wrong when obviously it works for him.

lets try again....

He is talking about "empty" what do you feel this means, how would or does this cause a reaction that according to you
can only be done with one method "use the bows of the body"

I would say they are to very different methods....

[Interloper]

My take: I'm thinking that semantics are gumming up the works, here.
Going back to the very first video posted, it seems to me that Adam Mizner's explanation of wu wei is expressed in the first minute. He's saying that if you pre-set your mind to have a prepared martial response to an attack, you will likely fail to address the circumstances of the attack as they happen, due to the rigidity of rote strategic and tactical programming.

For that reason, we train to create a consistent neutral state (term borrowed from Zhong Xin Dao I Liq Chuan), both structurally and mentally, so that we can change in the moment, as circumstances and conditions change. In that respect, there is no wind-up or setting oneself to prepare for an action; we are able to let our bodies act effortlessly, because all of the processes needed to respond to any situation, are already present as our baseline neutral state.

So, being "truly empty" is not only about your body carriage, but your mental state, as well. The mind is quiet and not full of chatter telling us what to do, so, there is no obstacle between intent and action.

[everything]

"neutral" happens in most sports. but that is probably only in the first O of the OODA loop. but then you bring in anticipation and deception and game theory, and then Mike Tyson hits you. no more wu wei.

[willie]

Wind Walker this is getting very tiring with you.

It's interesting to see you try to comment on what level I'm at, are you sure?

likewise


lets try again....

He is talking about "empty" what do you feel this means, how would or does this cause a reaction that according to you
can only be done with one method "use the bows of the body"

I would say they are to very different methods....

Likewise? I don't remember commenting on your current level???
I have a pretty good understanding of empty, I also don't need to speculate on what he meant, because i probably have it on my old computer.
I usually save stuff like that.

So now lets talk more about YOU!

First off, you put GMWHJ as a negative when I said that he is my grandteacher, do I have to take the time to find the thread to quote you?

Next, that shows that either your level in the thing in question or you think that you are on a higher level then the grandmaster himself?

Next, no matter what I say you will most likely not agree, perhaps you have taking the same veiw point as appledog who insists that 10 years of pondering
and coming up with your own conclusions is the correct coarse of action?

Next, if so, then anything that I say will be irrelevant to your current understanding until you go through the necessary amount of retraining.

The answer is a coiled spring and not emptyness = void or any other magical term that YOU would like to cut, paste,or try to sell....

[willie]

My take: I'm thinking that semantics are gumming up the works, here.
Going back to the very first video posted, it seems to me that Adam Mizner's explanation of wu wei is expressed in the first minute. He's saying that if you pre-set your mind to have a prepared martial response to an attack, you will likely fail to address the circumstances of the attack as they happen, due to the rigidity of rote strategic and tactical programming.

For that reason, we train to create a consistent neutral state (term borrowed from Zhong Xin Dao I Liq Chuan), both structurally and mentally, so that we can change in the moment, as circumstances and conditions change. In that respect, there is no wind-up or setting oneself to prepare for an action; we are able to let our bodies act effortlessly, because all of the processes needed to respond to any situation, are already present as our baseline neutral state.

So, being "truly empty" is not only about your body carriage, but your mental state, as well. The mind is quiet and not full of chatter telling us what to do, so, there is no obstacle between intent and action.

I think that he was partially correct, but the big guy purposely taking a dive says it all. even rolling over backwards? come on people wake up lol!
Do you really think that the sum of taiji really equals someone pushing someone harmlessly away? Guess what, surprise, it's not!

The video sucked!

[Interloper]

I think that he was partially correct, but the big guy purposely taking a dive says it all. even rolling over backwards? come on people wake up lol!
Do you really think the the some of taiji really equals someone pushing someone harmlessly away?

The video sucked!

It's a seminar, and he has to demonstrate things in a way that people can understand the connection of explanation to action. I don't think the demo partner was tanking, really, though sometimes at seminars, a partner sometimes may tank a little bit because he thinks he's helping the instructor to make his points. But, a lot of times you get seminar participants who have little experience in an art, and they have conventional body structure... and sometimes they really do bounce and stagger away because their center of mass has been disrupted on-contact and they can't recover their structure. I have seen it and experienced it in both roles, over the years.

[willie]

I think that he was partially correct, but the big guy purposely taking a dive says it all. even rolling over backwards? come on people wake up lol!
Do you really think the the some of taiji really equals someone pushing someone harmlessly away?

The video sucked!

It's a seminar, and he has to demonstrate things in a way that people can understand the connection of explanation to action. I don't think the demo partner was tanking, really, though sometimes at seminars, a partner sometimes may tank a little bit because he thinks he's helping the instructor to make his points. But, a lot of times you get seminar participants who have little experience in an art, and they have conventional body structure... and sometimes they really do bounce and stagger away because their center of mass has been disrupted on-contact and they can't recover their structure. I have seen it and experienced it in both roles, over the years.

Why did you remove the video. I had a great laugh out of it?

i'll tell you a real one from a couple months ago.
One of Hejinbao's long time top students was telling me that taichi people can't fight,he said "I don't associate myself with them" So i punched him in the stomach. LOL!
Of coarse I didn't mean to hit him that hard...I think that he was more embarrassed then injured...

[Interloper]

Why did you remove the video. I had a great laugh out of it?

i'll tell you a real one from a couple months ago.
One of Hejinbao's long time top students was telling me that taichi people can't fight,he said "I don't associate myself with them" So i punched him in the stomach. LOL!
Of coarse I didn't mean to hit him that hard...I think that he was more embarrassed then injured...

Oops! I accidentally deleted the video when I edited. It truly is one of the best films of actual tanking, out there! Here it is.



A lot of tai chi people don't train to fight; they practice push hands as a training drill for sensitivity and to help develop the internal skills, and they use the the training for health, balance, etc. That's okay as long as they don't think they are learning to fight, of course.

[windwalker]

damm RSF just ate my post...

The video sucked!

It's a seminar, and he has to demonstrate things in a way that people can understand the connection of explanation to action. I don't think the demo partner was tanking, really, though sometimes at seminars, a partner sometimes may tank a little bit because he thinks he's helping the instructor to make his points. But, a lot of times you get seminar participants who have little experience in an art, and they have conventional body structure... and sometimes they really do bounce and stagger away because their center of mass has been disrupted on-contact and they can't recover their structure. I have seen it and experienced it in both roles, over the years. But is it something you practice to do or work on.

"The Power of Zero
Ben told us, after demonstrating his usual total ease in moving, pushing, or throwing a much larger,
stronger, and more physically more impressive opponent:

“Normally we think that if he has 100 pounds of force or power, I better have 150. But then if I get 150
pounds of force, he may have accumulated more himself. Or there’ll be somebody else with more. So
next time it will be my 150 against his 200.

Then I’ll need to go to 250… and still, there’s always going to
be somebody with more than me. It's an arms race in that direction. So I need to reverse my approach.
I need to take my own power down to 0.

Then there’s no chasing or spiraling. Nothing can change. If he
has 100, I have 0. If he has 150, I have 0. If he has 200, I still have 0, on and on, whatever he has, I’m
always beneath it, it doesn’t change or affect me. I’m not chasing his attributes, or competing, or catching
up, or exceeding him. That’s Taijiquan.”
https://taijidc.files.wordpress.com/201 ... chings.pdf

Its a different approach