TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby Trick on Fri May 25, 2018 6:26 pm

Appledog wrote:
middleway wrote:Everyone will keep saying 'This isnt tai chi ... this guy isnt a master etc'

Until a tai chi guy wins ... then it will be Tai Chi! Wonder if we will ever see the day!


I'm just wondering why we never heard of him before and why we are having trouble finding any info on him or his school.

As I think you know there are plenty of people teaching Taiji in China, many have their "school" in a park, corner of a square or some similar places, they might be known locally or just in their neighborhood, and many are just for the Chinese market.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 7:50 pm

Trick wrote:I'm sorry I know little, and i see now that Zhu actually touch the front man's hand of the green pants gang and by so makes them fly as bowling pins, touching disqualify it as empty force right? No, it wouldn't, one would have to know how it works to understand why. If Zhu was a "regular" TJQ player, (forms and the usual partner work) I wouldn't think more about the fight, but the gif where he knocks down several people with just one most effortless stroke with his arm makes him kind of extraordinary? its physics he is not knocking them down, he is creating a condition whereby they'er falling down on their own. so of course then when someone with such power being so easily handled in the ring, rings fake force master? All it means is that what ever skill he developed he was not able to or did not understand how to use it...This is common, just means he now needs to focus on making a skill developed functional.But maybe he could have done the same to Yu as he does to the green pants guys if Yu just stood still... But as I noticed in that gif he's probably not doing the "real" empty force thing, his "skill" is something else?


If you know little to none of the skill, it might be hard for you to understand that whether touched or not, the process by which it works is the same. Its only a matter of degree and level...

Almost, you almost got it....for the sake of argument assume the skill in the gif is real. Then compare the differences between the conditions it was demoed in and the ring.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby marvin8 on Fri May 25, 2018 10:41 pm

windwalker wrote:
Trick wrote:I'm sorry I know little, and i see now that Zhu actually touch the front man's hand of the green pants gang and by so makes them fly as bowling pins, touching disqualify it as empty force right? No, it wouldn't, one would have to know how it works to understand why. If Zhu was a "regular" TJQ player, (forms and the usual partner work) I wouldn't think more about the fight, but the gif where he knocks down several people with just one most effortless stroke with his arm makes him kind of extraordinary? its physics he is not knocking them down, he is creating a condition whereby they'er falling down on their own. so of course then when someone with such power being so easily handled in the ring, rings fake force master? All it means is that what ever skill he developed he was not able to or did not understand how to use it...This is common, just means he now needs to focus on making a skill developed functional.But maybe he could have done the same to Yu as he does to the green pants guys if Yu just stood still... But as I noticed in that gif he's probably not doing the "real" empty force thing, his "skill" is something else?


If you know little to none of the skill, it might be hard for you to understand that whether touched or not, the process by which it works is the same. Its only a matter of degree and level...

Trick is correct. It doesn't matter whether one "knows little to none of the skill." What is important to know is the taiji master's demoed powers did not work in a chaotic, fight. It's good the taiji master took the public challenge. This exposure can be a reality check for himself and his unsuspecting students.

Without the public challenge, students may have believed the master's demo skills are real self-defense technques. They may lose their time, money and life by unknowingly training these non-effective, demo techniques. Others commented that the master is a fraud and a disgrace to CMA.

The master is lucky he was KO'd in a ring with a doctor nearby. In the street, the master could have died—falling unconscious onto the concrete. What is worse, it could have been one of his gullible students. The taiji master may have defended himself better by training basic fighting skills.

windwalker wrote:Almost, you almost got it....for the sake of argument assume the skill in the gif is real. Then compare the differences between the conditions it was demoed in and the ring.

The important condition is a non-compliant opponent. The taiji master had numerous opportunities to apply his demo skills—having made contact numerous times, but failed to even defend himself against a moving, aggressive opponent.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 11:00 pm

marvin8 wrote:The important condition is a non-compliant opponent. The taiji master had numerous opportunities to apply his demo skills—having made contact numerous times, but failed to even defend himself against a moving, aggressive opponent.


must be the net...try reading my post about the teacher as to what makes him a taiji master.
Is he your master,,,or teacher? or is he someone who says he practices taiji and feels he has some skill...

He had no natural reactions to defend himself with. Think about the training that is done that changes this...

yep got what you say about demo skills

demo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Holnh-VEysA

reality

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_aYtgIkJ5UE


some assumptions do not always translate well.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby Trick on Fri May 25, 2018 11:10 pm

windwalker wrote:its physics he is not knocking them down, he is creating a condition whereby they'er falling down on their own. Actually one could say that's what Yu did to Zhu in a way:) All it means is that what ever skill he developed he was not able to or did not understand how to use it...This is common, just means he now needs to focus on making a skill developed functional. Yes I wrote that previously, that maybe in a year or so of practice he might be more successful.

windwalker wrote:If you know little to none of the skill, it might be hard for you to understand that whether touched or not, the process by which it works is the same. Its only a matter of degree and level...

Almost, you almost got it....for the sake of argument assume the skill in the gif is real. Then compare the differences between the conditions it was demoed in and the ring.
Yes the difference, the force works beside the ring(there's a ring in the demo gif) but not inside :)
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 11:12 pm

marvin8 wrote:Without the public challenge, students may have believed the master's demo skills are real self-defense technques. They may lose their time, money and life by unknowingly training these non-effective, demo techniques. Others commented that the master is a fraud and a disgrace to CMA.


Such concern, should be applauded,, you might want to let him and his students know....dont know if any post here.

ah the students....Students are why the teachers teach what they teach...its what they look for and seek,
which they then find in different teachers.

Its not just taiji teachers, CMA went thought this in the 70s unfortunately looks like some didn't get the message.
If one wants to learn anything expecting a specific out come,,,one should first be clear about their expectations
and see if the out come matches.....

Keep looking for a teacher or method until what is sought matches what is found.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 11:20 pm

Trick wrote:Yes the difference, the force works beside the ring(there's a ring in the demo gif) but not inside :)


not much more to say on this....you and some others seem to have a point to make....

What the teacher demos works, most here could probably do it with a little coaching.
The point would be to understand the underlying principles in use that make it work.

Which apparently you do not, and dont really seem to care too, could be wrong...which is ok.
Just not good for a conversation.

The teacher did not seem know how to control the space, distance and timing....very similar to some of the other teachers
using demos like these to demo their work and then feel the need to step into a ring.... :P

They have a skill, it does work, just not as they seem to think or feel it does
never quite understand this....
Last edited by windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 11:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby Trick on Sat May 26, 2018 1:01 am

windwalker wrote:
Trick wrote:Yes the difference, the force works beside the ring(there's a ring in the demo gif) but not inside :)


not much more to say on this....you and some others seem to have a point to make....

What the teacher demos works, most here could probably do it with a little coaching.
The point would be to understand the underlying principles in use that make it work.
.

Seemingly it doesn't work against someone who are prepared to fight, I might be able to agree that such force things could work on a fighter that are not in a fighting mood and caught by surprise, but that would be like some kind of a back stab....and what's the point of that
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