TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby Trick on Fri May 25, 2018 2:20 am

windwalker wrote:
wiesiek wrote:Aaaaaaaaaaaa,
master of empty power and everything is obviously clear.... :-\

whats obviously clear

anyway,
I found it extremely strange, that somebody coming out on the ring w/o proper conditioning -shrug-


If one looks at all clips similar in nature it seems like a training issue and a basic
lack of understanding of ones own practice.
explained in different ways....How useful it is depends on ones practice.

Is there anyone of such "power/force" that have come out standing tall from a bout such as the one in this thread topic?....And also, even if such a "force" is indeed real why publicly demonstrate it to an audience that they know never really will believe it?
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby RobP3 on Fri May 25, 2018 2:47 am

windwalker wrote:
I am not suggesting they are the same but do show a type of reaction
explained in different ways....How useful it is depends on ones practice.

Listen to the descriptions used in the narration " he will tense up if he feels something"
a question might be, what is it he feels, why does this cause his body to tense up...



Fear
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 2:49 am

Trick wrote:Is there anyone of such "power/force" that have come out standing tall from a bout such as the one in this thread topic?....And also, even if such a "force" is indeed real why publicly demonstrate it to an audience that they know never really will believe it?



Don't know was not the one to bring it into this thread only posted the other clip for comparison and to show that there are trainings and things that people do that may not be understood by others looking in outside the context of the training shown or demoed.


Whether this type of training is functional or useful depends on the practitioner and level.

In this case as some have mention it would be good to look at the type of training he did to get a sense of why he felt he was prepared for the ring.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 2:51 am

RobP3 wrote:
windwalker wrote:
I am not suggesting they are the same but do show a type of reaction
explained in different ways....How useful it is depends on ones practice.

Listen to the descriptions used in the narration " he will tense up if he feels something"
a question might be, what is it he feels, why does this cause his body to tense up...



Fear


That would be one way I know of at least three other ways to explain the reaction.

Not really the topic of the thread.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby RobP3 on Fri May 25, 2018 2:53 am

windwalker wrote:
RobP3 wrote:
windwalker wrote:
I am not suggesting they are the same but do show a type of reaction
explained in different ways....How useful it is depends on ones practice.

Listen to the descriptions used in the narration " he will tense up if he feels something"
a question might be, what is it he feels, why does this cause his body to tense up...



Fear


That would be one way I know of at least three other ways to explain the reaction.

Not really the topic of the thread.


Maybe not but you asked the question :) And in the Systema context it is fear, that's all
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby wiesiek on Fri May 25, 2018 2:55 am

..."why does this cause his body to tense up..."
`cause his will it was...:-*
everybody has it / The Force :) / inside
such e.f.>trick<
- as I presently understanding it - is based on sensitivity and dependency: teacher -uke ,
it doesn`t work if you simply say -NO!
those, who try it for real doesn`t live to long
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby RobP3 on Fri May 25, 2018 3:05 am

wiesiek wrote:..."why does this cause his body to tense up..."
`cause his will it was...:-*
everybody has it / The Force :) / inside
such e.f.>trick<
- as I presently understanding it - is based on sensitivity and dependency: teacher -uke ,
it doesn`t work if you simply say -NO!
those, who try it for real doesn`t live to long


Once again, in the Ryabko clip posted, the answer is "fear". I can't speak for the other clip, but my experience with similar demos is that it is as you state
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby GrahamB on Fri May 25, 2018 3:20 am

Image
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby RobP3 on Fri May 25, 2018 3:34 am

GrahamB wrote:Image


Lol, right he is. We need to cleanse ourselves of fear :)
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby wiesiek on Fri May 25, 2018 4:05 am

:)
everybody experienced it, I suppose
tensing up is kinda of automatic reaction on fear/stress.

Daughter of my GFs /21 y.o./ returned yesterday from new work, were she has a lot of brand new actions.
She was so tense , that she has troubles even with light bending and her body was in pain, like hardwood in the touch..
Last edited by wiesiek on Fri May 25, 2018 4:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 5:01 am

RobP3 wrote:
Maybe not but you asked the question :) And in the Systema context it is fear, that's all


A rhetorical question, one not for me..

Emotional response and conditioned reflex could be one of way of looking at it as you noted with in the Systema context.
It can be explained within other context outside the topic of this thread.

My point was that many demos whether its aiki, kong jin, or using an emotional response "fear" **or conditioned reflex tends to be questioned by those not there or who've not been exposed to this kind of work, unable to entertain the concept in their mind with out exposure to it.....



** My use of emotional response "psychologists such as John B. Watson, Robert Plutchik, and Paul Ekman have suggested that there is only a small set of basic or innate emotions and that fear is one of them." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear

I just wondered why someone would say its "clear" in reference to EF. what was the meaning.

The interesting thing about the OP clip was not was done, but the lack of what was done, very similar to other clips with teachers who's practices include what one might call heightened levels of sensitivity training.

This teacher did not even seem to have any real reflexive action that would normally be expected by anyone not having any training being attacked and just reacting.

To me this would indicate that what ever he trained he did manage to change his response to threats....based on ?

hard to say with out looking at or knowing the kind of training he did...The small demo clips shown with his students point to part of it

I had asked about what qualified him as being a taiji "master" to say he practiced taiji did not seem to be reflected in any of his responses,,,One would think that even in panic mode the training would kick in.....This also can be said of many CMA people who's movements are totally different in the ring...

I did like the demo "Mikhail Ryabko explains how to deliver powerful strikes that are not visible to the attacker "

you mentioned fear, my take away was that he moves outside of the others awareness by maintaining his own inner neutrality.

The trick of or course being able to maintain this as one is threatened or responding to an attack......
We would call it dynamic central equilibrium ...

It tends to cause the same reactions but its not emotion based....a little different.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 5:06 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby Trick on Fri May 25, 2018 6:35 am

windwalker wrote:
wiesiek wrote:Aaaaaaaaaaaa,
master of empty power and everything is obviously clear.... :-\

whats obviously clear


If one looks at all clips similar in nature it seems like a training issue and a basic
lack of understanding of ones own practice.
explained in different ways....How useful it is depends on ones practice.

Is there anyone of such "power/force" that have come out standing tall from a bout such as the one in this thread topic?....
windwalker wrote:

Don't know was not the one to bring it into this thread .
Don't know maybe it was not a question when you wrote "what's obviously clear" . Anyway it seem obviously clear that empty force don't work in the ring. But of course there is the possibility that this particularly guy have not achieved the higher levels of the force, maybe in a year or so of force practice he will try again and come out on top..
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 6:58 am

Trick wrote: . Anyway it seem obviously clear that empty force don't work in the ring. But of course there is the possibility that this particularly guy have not achieved the higher levels of the force, maybe in a year or so of force practice he will try again and come out on top..


Did he mention this, or was it something that someone else mentioned watching his training clips...

Ok lets try this. You've used the term empty force

what does this mean to you....
have you ever experienced any type of reactions as shown in some of the demos

how would one know it was never used in the ring if its something they never worked with studied it,
or experienced. ?

What has this to do with how the guy lost against an mma fighter.
Last edited by windwalker on Fri May 25, 2018 7:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby Trick on Fri May 25, 2018 10:01 am

windwalker wrote:
Trick wrote: . Anyway it seem obviously clear that empty force don't work in the ring. But of course there is the possibility that this particularly guy have not achieved the higher levels of the force, maybe in a year or so of force practice he will try again and come out on top..


Did he mention this, or was it something that someone else mentioned watching his training clips...

Ok lets try this. You've used the term empty force

what does this mean to you....
have you ever experienced any type of reactions as shown in some of the demos

how would one know it was never used in the ring if its something they never worked with studied it,
or experienced. ?

What has this to do with how the guy lost against an mma fighter.

I'm sorry I know little, and i see now that Zhu actually touch the front man's hand of the green pants gang and by so makes them fly as bowling pins, touching disqualify it as empty force right? If Zhu was a "regular" TJQ player, (forms and the usual partner work) I wouldn't think more about the fight, but the gif where he knocks down several people with just one most effortless stroke with his arm makes him kind of extraordinary? so of course then when someone with such power being so easily handled in the ring, rings fake force master? But maybe he could have done the same to Yu as he does to the green pants guys if Yu just stood still... But as I noticed in that gif he's probably not doing the "real" empty force thing, his "skill" is something else?
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Re: TAI CHI MASTER VS MMA FIGHTER ! AGAIN !!

Postby Appledog on Fri May 25, 2018 5:31 pm

middleway wrote:Everyone will keep saying 'This isnt tai chi ... this guy isnt a master etc'

Until a tai chi guy wins ... then it will be Tai Chi! Wonder if we will ever see the day!


I'm just wondering why we never heard of him before and why we are having trouble finding any info on him or his school.
Last edited by Appledog on Fri May 25, 2018 5:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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