the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Videos Worth Watching
Published on May 30, 2018:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbkoRXo23CY

Who's statement is it, "The secret of Tai Chi is not transmitted! 99% don't know"? Is that stated in the video or is that your comment regarding the video?

it's the title of the vid

Nothing secret or even unusual is transmitted in that vid, so as far as the title, the vid certainly makes a point... ...

charles wrote:Who's statement is it, "The secret of Tai Chi is not transmitted! 99% don't know"? Is that stated in the video or is that your comment regarding the video?

The poster titled it. Then, I used google translate. Could be just click bait.

I thought it showed some timing, angles and english subtitles. So, I posted it.

Okay. Thanks. It does show some timing, angles and English subtitles.

My take-home message was that the secret of Taijiquan is to push your opponent away.

My take-home message was that the secret of Taijiquan is to push your opponent away.

hahaha. I thought the same.

That is the secret. Now we have to kill you. By pushing you. You are warned.

Fear us!

The mechanics of a good push are the same as a strike
Pushing is just another method of strike training
Increase the speed and deliver it from a point off the body
This guys applications are mediocre at best but give a classical perspective
The first application shows his understanding is rudimentary at best
Yet it is better than a lot I see

wayne hansen wrote:The mechanics of a good push are the same as a strike
Pushing is just another method of strike training
Increase the speed and deliver it from a point off the body

There's "long power" and "short power". Pushing is more or less long power. Short power is different. At least in my experience.

Yes a push is long power even though it can also be short power
In a long power movement there are various short movements
However I admit that most people don't know to apply short power
I prefer to call them prolonged energy and abrupt energy

If a push (‘long power’) is more like a shove forwards then it’s difficult to translate this into short power. (Not too sure about the quality of the man in the video here...). But if the push is based on a sinking of the body and a relaxing of the arms, then in my experience the transfer to short power is a lot easier. I like to train/teach a push as a partner exercise where the ‘dummy’ (B) stands in a moderate bow stance and the pusher (A) stands in a parallel stance relative to the partner. If A can then project B backwards with a clear push and maintaining relaxed arms without A himself falling (or swaying) forwards or backwards in the process, then I find this translates quite well into short power. The time span is then much shorter, the vectors more convergent and the mind more ‘severe’ in intent, but the ‘relaxation’ (or ‘song’ or whatever) remains.

If your experience is different, Wayne or Charles, then please tell !

There are other methods, but this is one brief way, to distinguish one type of short power from long power, while maintaining whole body movement coordinated with reverse breathing:

Short Power:
Use of centerline: The body turns around the centerline. A fast, sharp movement.
Use of Dantian: A sudden expansion of the dantian stabilize and make the movement sharper, coordinated together with the sudden body movement upon impact.
(here the rules is "when one part moves, all of the body moves, when one part stops, every body part stops together.")


Long Power:
Use of centerline: The whole body including the centerline follow through the movement. Usually through weight/stance shift or following step.
Use of Dantian: The Dantian doesn't settle, or complete expansion until the body has followed through the whole movement. The body is already returning and contracting when the Dantian complete it's expansion.
(Here, the body doesn't need to stop together, but the whole body must be in movement and continue the movement after the contact with the opponent is broken.)

Again there are other ways of describing and also different methods of generating long and short power.

And of course, this is not meant as an intellectual description. It's the exact way you need to physically use the body, something you need to learn how to do.

I can go with what you describe there, Bao. Although IMO the turning around the centreline in short power is an amplifier of the technique, kind of the cream on top of the cake, not an essential component for generating the power. In practice it will indeed usually happen simply because one hand is striking and the waist/hips are relaxed. The centreline turning normally wouldn't happen if you get the opportunity for a short-power double palm strike to the face/chin or the heart.

Giles wrote:But if the push is based on a sinking of the body and a relaxing of the arms, then in my experience the transfer to short power is a lot easier.

One can generate force - "long" or "short" - by expansion/opening or by contraction/closing. In both of these there is sinking of the body, but at different points in the sequence. The arms should always be "relaxed", but not limp, regardless of opening or closing. So, your description doesn't, for me, isn't what distinguishes long from short power.

In some styles, the entire body doesn't do one thing. That is, parts of the body do one thing, open or close, while parts of the body do another, open or close, but in a coordinated way. In that case, some parts open, some close, some expand, some contract. That can be done while shifting weight or not.

If A can then project B backwards with a clear push and maintaining relaxed arms without A himself falling (or swaying) forwards or backwards in the process, then I find this translates quite well into short power.!

The salient point of the exercise you describe seems to be that there is no linear translation of the centreline, per Bao's point. There are probably lots of ways one could describe the distinction between long and short power. Bao's description captures some of that with his stating that long power involves follow-through and a translation (weight shift between legs) of the centreline, while short power doesn't. That distinction works for styles that do shift weight while pushing, but doesn't include those that don't (e.g. Hong style). In other words, its possible to push (long power) without necessarily shifting weight.

As you pointed out, duration of force transfer is one of the distinctions between long and short power. Another is that in long power, the object is to move the opponent through a distance; in short power the object is not to move the opponent.