W.E. Fairbairn -- the bagua connection

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Re: W.E. Fairbairn -- the bagua connection

Postby C.J.W. on Mon Jun 18, 2018 9:21 pm





IMO, his strikes and locks -- as well as the famous chin-jab -- all carry a distinctive Japanese flavor.

Though he might have picked up some CMA during his long years of service in China, his bio also indicates that his background was mainly in the Japanese arts, holding a 2nd Dan in Judo and training in Yoshin Ryu Jujitsu. (Though Yoshin Ryu is a style that many believed to be of Chinese origin.)
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Re: W.E. Fairbairn -- the bagua connection

Postby klonk on Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:02 pm

I will agree that this does not look like classical bagua.

Image

Fairbairn himself goes only so far as to credit "Chinese boxing" as one inspiration or ingredient in his system. It's been plausibly suggested that the Chinese boxing he learned was Yin Fu bagua, but I don't see clear stylistic clues to that. What he is doing here does not look like Judo atemi either.

Perhaps when the different ingredients went into the stew, some of them lost their characteristic flavors, in favor of an unembellished, very direct and mechanical way of moving. We know that the emphasis was on techniques made easy to teach and to learn. Fairbairn's liking for messing with the opponent's spinal geometry, though, seems to me more characteristically Chinese, at least in inspiration.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
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Re: W.E. Fairbairn -- the bagua connection

Postby C.J.W. on Tue Jun 19, 2018 4:36 pm

Funny you should mention spinal manipulation. I actually think the Japanese use it more than the Chinese. ;D

Back in my Aikido and traditional Jujitsu days, one of the first basic strike/throw I was taught was actually a palm heel to the chin, and told that the key to making it work is to control the spine and causing it to bend backward.


In northern Chinese styles, based on what I've seen, spinal manipulation strike/throws are usually done using what is called "eye-brow mopping" -- a horizontal knife-hand sweeping motion aimed at the eyebrows which causes the head to tilt back. It is most commonly seen in Shuaijiao and Praying Mantis, though in Mantis they'd also achieve the same purpose by striking the eyes.
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Re: W.E. Fairbairn -- the bagua connection

Postby Trick on Wed Jun 20, 2018 11:20 pm

"After joining the SMP, he studied boxing, wrestling, savate, Shin no Shinto ryu jujutsu (Yoshin ryu) from Okada-sensei[who?], Kodokan judo in which he gained 2nd degrees black belt, and then Chinese martial arts[citation needed]. He developed his own fighting system—Defendu—and taught it to members of that police force in order to reduce officer fatalities. He described this system as primarily based on his personal experience, which according to police records included some 600 non-training fights, by his retirement at age 55 from the position of Assistant Commissioner in 1940.[citation needed]" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_E._Fairbairn
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Old General Or

Postby klonk on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:46 pm

Something went screwy with this thread. Posts are missing, mine which began it, and a long informative one from Tom.

I blame Old General Or. His name appears on my screen when things go wrong at RSF.

It says General Error is accessing the database. I think he should leave his hands off it.
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Re: W.E. Fairbairn -- the bagua connection

Postby Trick on Sun Jun 24, 2018 12:17 am

Yeah something is going on, posts gone missing, posts being double posted ?
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