Some Thoughts on Timing

A collection of links to internal martial arts videos. Serious martial arts videos ONLY. Joke videos go to Off the Topic.

Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby RobP3 on Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:22 am

A drill that can help develop... timing


"Remember, if your life seems dull and boring - it is" Derek & Clive
www.systemauk.com
RobP3
Wuji
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am
Location: UK

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby GrahamB on Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:05 am

Your 'Kong Jin' empty force is clearly weak Rob, you appear to actually need to make contact with your opponent. ;D

I think British Systema is my favourite sort of Systema.
"People in this country have had enough of experts" - Michael Gove, 2016
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 11403
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby Bao on Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:01 am

Nice vid. Though it would be interesting with a few more details. On what do you react and how? Where do you look at on your opponent? Do you aim to meet your opponents arm at a certain point?
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6557
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby windwalker on Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:51 am

GrahamB wrote:Your 'Kong Jin' empty force is clearly weak Rob, you appear to actually need to make contact with your opponent. ;D

I think British Systema is my favourite sort of Systema.



Almost correct. He does talk about the "feeling" one might ask the feeling of what...
An answer from a slightly different perspective


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk9UQvaaBGQ

Peter, addresses the intent of action, illustrating how after an action has been completed
in the mind its almost impossible to change when the body physically completes the action.

one can use the gap between thought of action, and the action itself .

If one cannot feel the intent of action in most cases it's too late. If there is a gap between action and intent it's too slow.

One thing I did note about RobP2 clip, he moves his hands but not his body...maybe its not the
point of the drill....We do some similar work although the focus is on moving the body..
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7031
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby Bao on Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:12 am

He does talk about the "feeling" one might ask the feeling of what...


I am not a fan of solely relying on what you "feel", though I believe that there should be an aspect of intuitivity mixed into the pot. IMO, first there must be a method, something comprehendable to rely on, that can guide you through what you "feel." If not, you can have a bad day and a good day, what you feel and how strong you can "feel" will have to rely on your daily shape. But if you understand where to put your eyes and how to look at certain things, you can better sort out what you feel and make a faster intuitive judgment.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6557
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby windwalker on Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:32 am

Bao wrote:I am not a fan of solely relying on what you "feel", though I believe that there should be an aspect of intuitivity mixed into the pot. IMO, first there must be a method, something comprehendable to rely on, that can guide you through what you "feel." If not, you can have a bad day and a good day, what you feel and how strong you can "feel" will have to rely on your daily shape. But if you understand where to put your eyes and how to look at certain things, you can better sort out what you feel and make a faster intuitive judgment.


When I talk of feeling, it means intent,,,one can feel and use this if its part of their training.
When the OP mention feeling, I took it to mean "intent" although he may have meant something else.

To talk of timing in this aspect and what Peter, demoed has nothing to do with emotion or looking...
It does have to do with perception and awareness.

This speaks to what I mentioned.

THE UNFETTERED MIND
WRITINGS OF THE ZEN MASTER TO THE SWORD MASTER
TAKUAN SOHO

In just the same way, if the mind stops with the sword with which a man is going to strike you, there will be an interval, and your own action will be lost. But if in the interval between your opponent's striking sword and your own action you cannot introduce even the breadth of a hair, your opponent's sword should become your own.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7031
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby Bao on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:03 am

windwalker wrote:When I talk of feeling, it means intent,,,one can feel and use this if its part of their training.
When the OP mention feeling, I took it to mean "intent" although he may have meant something else.


I was replying to what Rob said. I don't think he meant intent.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
Bao
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6557
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 12:46 pm
Location: High up north

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby RobP3 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:17 am

Bao wrote:Nice vid. Though it would be interesting with a few more details. On what do you react and how? Where do you look at on your opponent? Do you aim to meet your opponents arm at a certain point?


Good question. Om fact I was training some police officers this morning in and the same question arose. It is dependent on context, of course, but generally speaking we are looking for the point at where the person makes the decision to move, or even before that.
In the language of the OODA Loop model - Observe, Orientate, Decision, Action we are aiming at the second O or the D. If we wait until A then we are usually reactiing rather than responding.

In concrete terms that usually means watching the shoulders, watching the expression and getting a general sense of a person' state of mind. The arm drill is just a method of practice. For application you could be working against the elbow, against the chest muscles or direct into the core, or evading completely
"Remember, if your life seems dull and boring - it is" Derek & Clive
www.systemauk.com
RobP3
Wuji
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am
Location: UK

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby RobP3 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:18 am

GrahamB wrote:Your 'Kong Jin' empty force is clearly weak Rob, you appear to actually need to make contact with your opponent. ;D

I think British Systema is my favourite sort of Systema.


Ah well the EF is working too, but just in different ways :) Lol, none of this is my own, except for the mistakes!
"Remember, if your life seems dull and boring - it is" Derek & Clive
www.systemauk.com
RobP3
Wuji
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am
Location: UK

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby RobP3 on Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:20 am

windwalker wrote:
One thing I did note about RobP2 clip, he moves his hands but not his body...maybe its not the
point of the drill....We do some similar work although the focus is on moving the body..


Hands are faster but either can lead. Basically whichever part of the body moves first can lead the rest but the body movement is not essential for delivering power
"Remember, if your life seems dull and boring - it is" Derek & Clive
www.systemauk.com
RobP3
Wuji
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am
Location: UK

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby windwalker on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:01 am

RobP3 wrote:
windwalker wrote:
One thing I did note about RobP2 clip, he moves his hands but not his body...maybe its not the
point of the drill....We do some similar work although the focus is on moving the body..


Hands are faster but either can lead. Basically whichever part of the body moves first can lead the rest but the body movement is not essential for delivering power


We may be speaking to different things.

Wasn't really looking at power delivery, any point touched should be be able to issue or receive depends on style as to method.
My point was that the body was still in range and relatively still just an observation, of course as you've outlined your focus may be different
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:11 am, edited 2 times in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7031
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby Bhassler on Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:07 am

Not sure about this. I didn't laugh at all...
Image
Bhassler
Great Old One
 
Posts: 3058
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:05 pm
Location: xxxxxxx

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby RobP3 on Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:53 am

Bao wrote:
He does talk about the "feeling" one might ask the feeling of what...


I am not a fan of solely relying on what you "feel", though I believe that there should be an aspect of intuitivity mixed into the pot. IMO, first there must be a method, something comprehendable to rely on, that can guide you through what you "feel." If not, you can have a bad day and a good day, what you feel and how strong you can "feel" will have to rely on your daily shape. But if you understand where to put your eyes and how to look at certain things, you can better sort out what you feel and make a faster intuitive judgment.


But we don't just "rely on feel" its' about integrating every aspect. No good having "feel" if you can't move your feet or have terrible posture.
However I would say it is more about feel in terms of working against people. Because once you have the feel you can adapt the form to it, as you say, make a faster judgement - if trained correctly. I guess it is an opposite approach to training form in order to get the fell (by form I mean specific postures.)
"Remember, if your life seems dull and boring - it is" Derek & Clive
www.systemauk.com
RobP3
Wuji
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am
Location: UK

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby RobP3 on Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:55 am

windwalker wrote:
RobP3 wrote:
windwalker wrote:
One thing I did note about RobP2 clip, he moves his hands but not his body...maybe its not the
point of the drill....We do some similar work although the focus is on moving the body..


Hands are faster but either can lead. Basically whichever part of the body moves first can lead the rest but the body movement is not essential for delivering power


We may be speaking to different things.

Wasn't really looking at power delivery, any point touched should be be able to issue or receive depends on style as to method.
My point was that the body was still in range and relatively still just an observation, of course as you've outlined your focus may be different


The issue issue is not an issue for us as we don't do issuing as such :)
I don't understand what you mean about the body being still in range? If it isn't, it's difficult to hit the other guy. The body is as still or mobile as it needs to be for the situation
Last edited by RobP3 on Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:56 am, edited 2 times in total.
"Remember, if your life seems dull and boring - it is" Derek & Clive
www.systemauk.com
RobP3
Wuji
 
Posts: 631
Joined: Sat Jun 18, 2016 7:30 am
Location: UK

Re: Some Thoughts on Timing

Postby windwalker on Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:22 am

My base movement and style is from hop gar. Which is called a long arm system. This means that it works outside of the others hitting range but puts the other in it's range..
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:59 am, edited 4 times in total.
rule 19
windwalker
Wuji
 
Posts: 7031
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 4:08 am

Next

Return to Video Links

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest