the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

A drill that can help develop... timing

Your 'Kong Jin' empty force is clearly weak Rob, you appear to actually need to make contact with your opponent.

I think British Systema is my favourite sort of Systema.

Nice vid. Though it would be interesting with a few more details. On what do you react and how? Where do you look at on your opponent? Do you aim to meet your opponents arm at a certain point?

GrahamB wrote:Your 'Kong Jin' empty force is clearly weak Rob, you appear to actually need to make contact with your opponent.

I think British Systema is my favourite sort of Systema.

Almost correct. He does talk about the "feeling" one might ask the feeling of what...
An answer from a slightly different perspective


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kk9UQvaaBGQ

Peter, addresses the intent of action, illustrating how after an action has been completed
in the mind its almost impossible to change when the body physically completes the action.

one can use the gap between thought of action, and the action itself .

If one cannot feel the intent of action in most cases it's too late. If there is a gap between action and intent it's too slow.

One thing I did note about RobP2 clip, he moves his hands but not his body...maybe its not the
point of the drill....We do some similar work although the focus is on moving the body..

He does talk about the "feeling" one might ask the feeling of what...

I am not a fan of solely relying on what you "feel", though I believe that there should be an aspect of intuitivity mixed into the pot. IMO, first there must be a method, something comprehendable to rely on, that can guide you through what you "feel." If not, you can have a bad day and a good day, what you feel and how strong you can "feel" will have to rely on your daily shape. But if you understand where to put your eyes and how to look at certain things, you can better sort out what you feel and make a faster intuitive judgment.

Bao wrote:I am not a fan of solely relying on what you "feel", though I believe that there should be an aspect of intuitivity mixed into the pot. IMO, first there must be a method, something comprehendable to rely on, that can guide you through what you "feel." If not, you can have a bad day and a good day, what you feel and how strong you can "feel" will have to rely on your daily shape. But if you understand where to put your eyes and how to look at certain things, you can better sort out what you feel and make a faster intuitive judgment.

When I talk of feeling, it means intent,,,one can feel and use this if its part of their training.
When the OP mention feeling, I took it to mean "intent" although he may have meant something else.

To talk of timing in this aspect and what Peter, demoed has nothing to do with emotion or looking...
It does have to do with perception and awareness.

This speaks to what I mentioned.

THE UNFETTERED MIND
WRITINGS OF THE ZEN MASTER TO THE SWORD MASTER
TAKUAN SOHO

In just the same way, if the mind stops with the sword with which a man is going to strike you, there will be an interval, and your own action will be lost. But if in the interval between your opponent's striking sword and your own action you cannot introduce even the breadth of a hair, your opponent's sword should become your own.

windwalker wrote:When I talk of feeling, it means intent,,,one can feel and use this if its part of their training.
When the OP mention feeling, I took it to mean "intent" although he may have meant something else.

I was replying to what Rob said. I don't think he meant intent.

Bao wrote:Nice vid. Though it would be interesting with a few more details. On what do you react and how? Where do you look at on your opponent? Do you aim to meet your opponents arm at a certain point?

Good question. Om fact I was training some police officers this morning in and the same question arose. It is dependent on context, of course, but generally speaking we are looking for the point at where the person makes the decision to move, or even before that.
In the language of the OODA Loop model - Observe, Orientate, Decision, Action we are aiming at the second O or the D. If we wait until A then we are usually reactiing rather than responding.

In concrete terms that usually means watching the shoulders, watching the expression and getting a general sense of a person' state of mind. The arm drill is just a method of practice. For application you could be working against the elbow, against the chest muscles or direct into the core, or evading completely

GrahamB wrote:Your 'Kong Jin' empty force is clearly weak Rob, you appear to actually need to make contact with your opponent.

I think British Systema is my favourite sort of Systema.

Ah well the EF is working too, but just in different ways Lol, none of this is my own, except for the mistakes!

windwalker wrote:
One thing I did note about RobP2 clip, he moves his hands but not his body...maybe its not the
point of the drill....We do some similar work although the focus is on moving the body..

Hands are faster but either can lead. Basically whichever part of the body moves first can lead the rest but the body movement is not essential for delivering power

RobP3 wrote:

windwalker wrote:
One thing I did note about RobP2 clip, he moves his hands but not his body...maybe its not the
point of the drill....We do some similar work although the focus is on moving the body..

Hands are faster but either can lead. Basically whichever part of the body moves first can lead the rest but the body movement is not essential for delivering power

We may be speaking to different things.

Wasn't really looking at power delivery, any point touched should be be able to issue or receive depends on style as to method.
My point was that the body was still in range and relatively still just an observation, of course as you've outlined your focus may be different

Not sure about this. I didn't laugh at all...

Bao wrote:

He does talk about the "feeling" one might ask the feeling of what...

I am not a fan of solely relying on what you "feel", though I believe that there should be an aspect of intuitivity mixed into the pot. IMO, first there must be a method, something comprehendable to rely on, that can guide you through what you "feel." If not, you can have a bad day and a good day, what you feel and how strong you can "feel" will have to rely on your daily shape. But if you understand where to put your eyes and how to look at certain things, you can better sort out what you feel and make a faster intuitive judgment.

But we don't just "rely on feel" its' about integrating every aspect. No good having "feel" if you can't move your feet or have terrible posture.
However I would say it is more about feel in terms of working against people. Because once you have the feel you can adapt the form to it, as you say, make a faster judgement - if trained correctly. I guess it is an opposite approach to training form in order to get the fell (by form I mean specific postures.)

windwalker wrote:

RobP3 wrote:

windwalker wrote:
One thing I did note about RobP2 clip, he moves his hands but not his body...maybe its not the
point of the drill....We do some similar work although the focus is on moving the body..

Hands are faster but either can lead. Basically whichever part of the body moves first can lead the rest but the body movement is not essential for delivering power

We may be speaking to different things.

Wasn't really looking at power delivery, any point touched should be be able to issue or receive depends on style as to method.
My point was that the body was still in range and relatively still just an observation, of course as you've outlined your focus may be different

The issue issue is not an issue for us as we don't do issuing as such
I don't understand what you mean about the body being still in range? If it isn't, it's difficult to hit the other guy. The body is as still or mobile as it needs to be for the situation

My base movement and style is from hop gar. Which is called a long arm system. This means that it works outside of the others hitting range but puts the other in it's range..