the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

After a multi-year hiatus, I finally have the opportunity to train consistently with a partner again! It's been about a month. I'm super rusty, but really excited to train and explore some aspects of TaiJi that I've been thinking about.

These days, practice of the general skills of Taiji are often neglected in favor of the special, soft, internal skills. As such, I've decided to catalog at least one "practical" application sequence for each posture or series of postures of the traditional Yang style Taiji form. The postures covered in the clips below are: Beginning form, ward off right, ward off left, grasp the sparrow's tail.

Inspired by Ramsey Dewey's dicsussion on TaiJi as "shadow wrestling", I'm approaching the postures primarily with a focus on cataloging throws and takedowns.

Apologies for the shitty camerawork and editing, especially in the first video. The next ones will (hopefully) be better.





If you have any videos demonstrating Yang style TaiJi postures from a throwing and/or takedown perspective, feel free to post them!

Good show-reel. I enjoyed the vids, especially the first one.

In general, I don't like this kind of applications practice in Push hands when someone suddenly stop from following and let himself be handled any way the "executioner" wants. It's a bit counter-productive and can (probably) build bad habits. Better to keep on flowing and changing and try to counter the attempts to pull of an application. But I also don't like mixing drills with free play. Many do like this, but I believe that it's pretty counter-intuitive as well. When you start, you shouldn't exchange attacks one and one, instead you should follow, fill in the gaps. As soon as it starts, one person already has the advantage and the other one has not. So you should follow his movements and fill in directly and without any kind of pattern or application in mind. But I understand this is just a show-reel, so general thoughts only, just rambling.

Bao wrote:Good show-reel. I enjoyed the vids, especially the first one.

In general, I don't like this kind of applications practice in Push hands when someone suddenly stop from following and let himself be handled any way the "executioner" wants. It's a bit counter-productive and can (probably) build bad habits. Better to keep on flowing and changing and try to counter the attempts to pull of an application. But I also don't like mixing drills with free play. Many do like this, but I believe that it's pretty counter-intuitive as well. When you start, you shouldn't exchange attacks one and one, instead you should follow, fill in the gaps. As soon as it starts, one person already has the advantage and the other one has not. So you should follow his movements and fill in directly and without any kind of pattern or application in mind. But I understand this is just a show-reel, so general thoughts only, just rambling.

Hi Bao, thanks for the comment!

I get what you're saying in regards to push hands. My view is that, beyond (or before) free play, sensitivity, and four energy training, an awareness of possibilities - of possible applications - is advantageous. While some people might choose to force an application or pattern, I'm more an advocate of applying technique when opportunity presents itself. I believe that without knowledge of a technique and how/when it might be applied, then that becomes a missed opportunity.

Here's the next set of postures, From Single Whip to White Crane Spreads Wings.

I believe that without knowledge of a technique and how/when it might be applied, then that becomes a missed opportunity

If you understand how to follow, adapt, fill in and know how to read balance, distance and angle, you only need to have learned a few techniques to know and being able to use a thousand. No opportunity will be missed.

.... Nice leg takedowns BTW.

Thanks Bao.

Here's the next installment in my catalog. I had a displaced rib, so I was a little tentative, but the applications are still clear.

It would be interesting to know where your ideas for application come from
Where does your yang style come from
What parts of the yang system do you practice

wayne hansen wrote:It would be interesting to know where your ideas for application come from
Where does your yang style come from
What parts of the yang system do you practice

My ideas for application in this project come from exploring the postures from “shuai” first, except in cases where it’s obviously something else, such as “Da” in advance step, parry, punch. This is in line with my understanding of Taiji as being primarily a wrestling art.

My Yang style long form comes from Kevin Wallbridge, with some personal modifications (“de-geriatricization”).

I practice the traditional 85 form, the 24 form, and two Jian forms: the 32 & 49.
I practice fixed step and moving step push hands, both patterned and freestyle.
I’m practicing application sequences and drills, within both patterned and freestyle contexts.
I practice Sparring.
I have a Wing Chun background.
I need to practice more Zhan Zhuang.

With all the other exercises at hand why need more ZZ?

Trick wrote:With all the other exercises at hand why need more ZZ?

Because I want to improve my fundamentals for both the internal and external skills.

Throw away that 24!

And practice a lot more ZZ.
If you know HOW to do it properly you know WHY you do it.

This is in line with my understanding of Taiji as being primarily a wrestling art.

That’s your personal opinion.


Some people use it foremost as a sort of wrestling art, others use it as a punching art, others focus on qinna and yet others see it as a blend of these and other aspects. And still there are other views.

Tai Chi is everything you can use it as. That is the meaning of the term Tai Chi = potential. I see it very much as a science to understand the balance and structure of a human body in movement. I also see it as an art of self-knowledge and a way of how to translate this knowledge into a knowledge about others.

IMO principles are important not if you use principles for punching, throwing or qinna.
If you limit yourself to this or that you might miss something very important about the essence of the art, the potential and possibilities to use Tai Chi principles in many different ways, unrehearsed and spontaneously.

Bao wrote:

This is in line with my understanding of Taiji as being primarily a wrestling art.

That’s your personal opinion only.

Some people use it foremost as a sort of wrestling art, others use it as a punching art, others focus on qinna and yet others see it as a blend of these and other aspects. And still there are other views. . . .

YMAA
Published on Nov 4, 2013

DVD available: http://ymaa.com/publishing/internal/t...

Dr. Yang's tai chi lineage can be traced back to the Yang family through Grandmaster Kao, Tao (高濤) and his teacher Yue, Huanzhi (樂奐之), an indoor disciple of Yang, Chengfu (楊澄甫).

Taijiquan (Tai Chi Chuan) is an ancient internal Chinese martial art which has gained widespread popularity for its many health benefits. Today, most people practice taiji slowly to develop their balance, strength, and vitality, and the martial applications of the art are often ignored. Taijiquan, or 'Grand Ultimate Fist', is a highly effective form of combat specializing in short and middle-range fighting.

Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming offers practical martial applications for each of the 37-postures of traditional Taiji, based on the forms passed down by Yang, Ban-Hou. Once the viewer has a basic understanding of these universal principles, you may use them to devise further applications for every movement no matter which style of Taiji you practice.

Learn the Basic Concepts of Taiji and Taijiquan.
Understand the purpose of every Taiji movement.
Over 50 effective applications for any Taijiquan style:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kp2jWeaKrqI

I rarely comment on videos. However, I once mentioned to Willie, when he was here, "Everyone has applications, they are a dime a dozen". He never understood what I meant. If he's viewed DiaitaDoc's videos, perhaps he does now.

There are applications that reflect how the art is meant to be used and applications that are just there for their own sake
Applications should explore ever aspect of how the art is used
They should shine a positive light on the form
Yang above is not a good example he is basically a white crane guy doing tai chi with white crane distancing and timing
The reason I asked about your teacher is you seem to be trying to work it out without a great deal of prior knowledge
If you are serious throw away the 24 it is simplistic for simplicity sake
I call it 123 Cha Cha Cha it fails to explore a multi directional awareness
Good luck with your project

Bugang wrote:Throw away that 24!

That’s in progress. I still have a few seniors who ask for refreshers, but I don’t “practice” it per se.

Bao wrote:That’s your personal opinion only.

Indeed! As an addendum, I’m not discounting the striking and Qinna - from my perspective, any posture that is repeated throughout the form is meant to be examined from more than one angle.

I agree that Taiji, at its core, is “all encompassing”, and allows for “unlimited” applications. Another personal opinion I have is that most posture applications I’ve seen demonstrated are shit - either low percentage or just silly - which is one of the reasons I started this project. I’m fully prepared to have my applications categorized in the same manner, though. I’m cool with it. That’s the beauty of personal opinion and interpretation.

Wayne Hansen wrote:The reason I asked about your teacher is you seem to be trying to work it out without a great deal of prior knowledge

Sometimes a lack of prior knowledge allows us to see things from a fresh perspective. That said, any lack of knowledge is a reflection of my inability to learn, not my teacher’s inability to teach.

Thank you for your well wishes, Wayne.