Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Trick on Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:13 am

Bao wrote:In Spain the Catalonian Karate Federation has claimed that Tai Chi Chuan is derived from Karate. ;D

Hehe, back when Okinawa was its own kingdom the martial art master Sōkon Matsumura(one of the most influential personalities in the history of Karate) held a position as chief martial arts teacher to the royal guard, not only a master of unarmed combat but also a master in the Jigen-ryu school of fencing. His position led him to be part of Okinawan royal delegations visiting China. It’s said that one such travels went to the royal court in Beijing, while there he did a demonstration of his fencing that impressed the Chinese officials...So here’s the thing. Matsumura was just ten years younger than Yang Luchan, and the possibility that YLC was around teaching martial arts to the royal Qing guards in Beijing during the Okinawan delegation visit might be so. Did Yang and Matsumura meet, did they exchange ideas, did Matsumura teach Karate to Yang or did Yang teach Taiji to Matsumura ?......Who was internal, who was external, did they even think like that back then?....ah, it’s fun to speculate 8-)
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby wiesiek on Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:13 am

hehe, Trick
me thinkin` , that here we have no room for speculations,
Chinese looked at the show, with stone face expression, and express how much they appreciated it later in deep bow wit the smile.
They show him nothing in exchange, of course .

just what extrapolation from >traditional MA characters< is telling me :D
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Bao on Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:20 pm

Trick wrote:....The correct body structure punch can of course be done by the attacker, while that process will be more visible for an onlooker the receiver will not see it if executed with correct timing......


I find your lack of faith disturbing... ;)

It seems like people believe that the body must be in a certain fixed posture while delivering a strike and preferably by not moving. Look at a XY Bengquan, you walk in while punching with your fist. This fist is said to be one of the strongest in all TCMA. Or watch Bagua players walking and striking at the same time. Tai Chi has also strikes while moving, walking and it also has the same follow step as in XY. Tai Chi methods can be just as lively and fast as XY, BGZ and many other TCMA.
...Though I would agree that not many beginners or even intermediate Tai Chi practitioners have a clue about power generation except for when it comes to pushing... :-\
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby windwalker on Mon Oct 01, 2018 4:22 pm

"this fist is said to be one of the strongest in all TCMA. Or watch Bagua players walking and striking at the same time. "

Cool, care to post some clips real time showing this
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Trick on Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:36 pm

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:....The correct body structure punch can of course be done by the attacker, while that process will be more visible for an onlooker the receiver will not see it if executed with correct timing......


I find your lack of faith disturbing... ;)

It seems like people believe that the body must be in a certain fixed posture while delivering a strike and preferably by not moving. Look at a XY Bengquan, you walk in while punching with your fist. This fist is said to be one of the strongest in all TCMA. Or watch Bagua players walking and striking at the same time. Tai Chi has also strikes while moving, walking and it also has the same follow step as in XY. Tai Chi methods can be just as lively and fast as XY, BGZ and many other TCMA.
...Though I would agree that not many beginners or even intermediate Tai Chi practitioners have a clue about power generation except for when it comes to pushing... :-\

You can “walk in” with a fist but if executed poorly you may walk in to a fist. 8-)
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Trick on Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:50 pm

windwalker wrote:"this fist is said to be one of the strongest in all TCMA. Or watch Bagua players walking and striking at the same time. "

Cool, care to post some clips real time showing this

Revers punch(cross/yakutzuki/aubu bengquan)knock downs I would guess are not difficult to find on the net, but delivered by an Taiji/Xingyi/Bagua practitioner/master would probably be harder to find......
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Bao on Mon Oct 01, 2018 11:00 pm

windwalker wrote:"this fist is said to be one of the strongest in all TCMA. Or watch Bagua players walking and striking at the same time. "

Cool, care to post some clips real time showing this


"It is said". Ask the people who claims so and ask what proofs they have. :P
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Trick on Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:29 am

It’s all theorizing till one has had the physical experience..
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Bao on Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:05 am

Revers punch(cross/yakutzuki/aubu bengquan)knock downs I would guess are not difficult to find on the net, but delivered by an Taiji/Xingyi/Bagua practitioner/master would probably be harder to find......





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r1RW7Csb0b0

Trick wrote:It’s all theorizing till one has had the physical experience..


I've done my share of fighting when I was younger. I prefer to keep everything else about fighting as theory. ;) Haven't been interested in any kind of fighting for very long.
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:27 pm

Bao do you come from a tang shou Tao lineage
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby C.J.W. on Fri Oct 05, 2018 2:33 pm

Some Okinawan Karate lineages with direct ties to southern Chinese arts still contain internal elements -- namely specific breathing methods and fajin. Shotokan, on the other hand, is IMO quite external. I've also never been a fan of Shotokan's large forward bow stance. While it may allow you to move forward and backward quickly, the stance itself is inherently vulnerable to sideways pressure.
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Trick on Sat Oct 06, 2018 12:47 am

C.J.W. wrote:Some Okinawan Karate lineages with direct ties to southern Chinese arts still contain internal elements -- namely specific breathing methods and fajin. Shotokan, on the other hand, is IMO quite external. I've also never been a fan of Shotokan's large forward bow stance. While it may allow you to move forward and backward quickly, the stance itself is inherently vulnerable to sideways pressure.

Yes, well a long forward bow stance is not exactly there to be used as a “ready to fight” stance, as we all know very well ? Most stances(leg positions) are “training tools”(including the transitions from stance to stance) to exercise certain aspects ?....As I wrote in a previous post here, certain Okinawan Karate schools have a more internal focus with its breathing exercises, but these schools combine this with a big focus on equipment practice such as weight training and hitting objects....After my brief stay in Okinawa in late 80’s I began to feel a lot of methods where missing in (my)Shotokan practice which eventually led me to discontinue that path. But never lost sight of it, still keeping contact with it to a certain degree. Now after many years of my current practice and re-examining and comparing my previous practice with that, I see methods in Shotokan Karate that are quite compatible with what I currently do..it brings on a new interest in that style.....But to fully take up a regular practice in it again I don’t know, and don’t really have to, since how my understanding is now, through my current Taijiquan, Xingyiquan and Tongbeiquan I’m also practicing Karate.
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Trick on Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 am

Just found out about this film: Kuro Obi https://v.youku.com/pad_show/id_XMzEyOT ... 9184553252 One of JKA’s(Shotokan) top instructors explore and compare his own and other styles of Japanese MA’s. It’s a long one, but for you that are interested it’s a good see.
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby marvin8 on Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:12 pm

Trick wrote:Just found out about this film: Kuro Obi https://v.youku.com/pad_show/id_XMzEyOT ... 9184553252 One of JKA’s(Shotokan) top instructors explore and compare his own and other styles of Japanese MA’s. It’s a long one, but for you that are interested it’s a good see.

Yes, that was interesting. There are several videos of Naka Tatsuya on youtube.

Tatsuya Naka (中 達也 Naka Tatsuya) (born May 29, 1964 in Tokyo) is a Japanese master of Shotokan karate. He is an actor, known for Black Belt (2007), High-Kick Girl! (2009) and Karate Girl (2011).


A little off topic. But, a few videos of Naka Tatsuya learning about Kung Fu.

Karate Shotokan
Published on Feb 18, 2017

A trip to Okinawa island to search the Karate origins. Naka sensei goes through of different Karate styles dojos looking for answers. Trainings, Kihons, Katas and unusual applicationsblows. A student of karate, Naka sensei takes a deeper dive yet and seeks a bond in Kung-Fu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjThv_NJM8s

kuro-obi world
Published on Apr 1, 2018

Fujian Province of China Master of Five Fist. Punches rock pillars with bare hands. Training to the extent that you want to turn your eyes. This is kung fu in China:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=caIdpp7nlAY


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuCS7jDlUqk

kuro-obi world
Published on May 22, 2018

Twin Five Fisted Fist brothers, who Tatsuya met in Fujian Province, what is that technology?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkY_n-C-Ouk

kuro-obi world
Published on Apr 6, 2018

Chinese martial artist in the "Great Journey" series booming, Miyahira Yasushi. When I visited the dojo of Miyairairi in Okinawa, I rolled around the ground and met Kempo which fly in the air!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZ2g4XSzan8
Last edited by marvin8 on Wed Oct 10, 2018 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hotton (Karate): Internal connection, Leading with intention

Postby Trick on Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:26 pm

Haven’t seen the “Kuro-obi(black-belt)world” film, but found a clip on the Chinese tubes where he is in Okinawa exploring, in my opinion he outperform most of the Karatekas he meet there, he’s quite high level. His Oi-zuki(full step lead punch) is quite amazing, not many can score with it.
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