middleway wrote:windwalker : Both teachers talked about the point of contact and the interaction with it. Without understanding this from their point of view or what they have said I don't see how one can speculate about what is happening or being shown in the clip.
Some will wonder if it's conditioning, oversensitivity or even faking.
All without understanding what is done how it's done why it's done according to the ones hosting the demo.
For context i have met and touched hands with Sam and have a background in Daito Ryu. So actually i have some understanding of their point of view and how they are doing what they are doing.
regards.
There are clips of Sam, with some of his students reacting in much the same way for the same reasons.
With out understanding or a background that allows one to, just watching as many do they may question what is going on and why the people react as they do.
The responses on this are quite interesting mostly given from a push hands point of view....
Imagine if this was filmed
I remember doing this with Mario Napoli years ago, and 1 or 2 seconds later, without feeling any significant 'force' from him, I was flying past him, turned over in the air once, and rolled a couple of times before getting back to my feet. Lovely.
In writing no one questions it, once filmed its up for grabs.
For the record I really dont care much for push hands although i've had people in the area SF, approach me wanting to gain some skill in it. Many of them teach groups themselves. Its a training tool, not much interest to me IMO many bad habits can be developed if one does not
understand what is being trained.
If one really wants to get tested its over at first touch...something that many seem not to get....Its pointless to go much beyond this. This is partially why as in the demo the "connection" is stressed. What happens, what is being connected with, ect. If one really wants to test it, they should just go and spar or fight using it.
This is the test..
With striking arts, in demo mode if some did as some have mentioned here trying to test the teacher ect.
They might get hurt or knocked out depending on level of the teacher.
Upon some simple push hands practice...upon the 1st touch, I didn't even have to try very hard to find his center and he was beginning to stomp and fall every easily. I told him, "i'm barely touching you...it's really not necessary. " = The look on his face was priceless...as If "I" was the clueless one!!
![huh ???](./images/smilies/yabb_huh.gif)
?
Always find this out look interesting. Again "push hands"
Used to train with teacher Breden Lai, 7* mantis, and his group a long time ago...My background included taiji at the time, just getting into some of the work I would later complete in Beijing "taiji work"
We practiced a combo series typical to mantis. In working with some of the students there feeling the direction of their force I would apply taiji principle they would end up tripping themselves off line. Teacher Lai, seeing this came over and corrected me, demoing on me.
His touch was very light and did not have the same feel to it as the students....although I could feel its direction I didn't follow up, I did as was instructed dispite feeling something the others could not,,,they not being sensitive enough or trained to feel it.. It was not what I was there for at the time, nor something they where training for being mantis. Different theory.
The whole point from my POV is everything is done with a progressively lighter and lighter touch as the understanding of what is being connected with grows.
The OP opening statement.
"How you react"
It depends...
In beijing I was presented with something I had never felt before and did not understand why I reacted to it as I did.
I would spend the next 10yrs investigating this working the group and the teacher there who would become my next, last and final
taiji teacher.
CJW, brought up the point of "feeding jin" to the teacher so that the teacher as something work with....using this to show others
First one has to understand what is meant by "jin" and have developed it enough to understand how to do or what is meant by this.
Although some say they've trained with either one or both of the instructors
they don't really say what their level of understanding is,
nor explain enough of what is going that might help to explain the reaction noted.
Instead, oddly enough they seem to discount it....
![meh :-\](./images/smilies/yabb_undecided.gif)