How you react

[Interloper]

All you need to do is go visit one of these teachers or their senior students and feel for yourself. "Feeling is believing."

As soon they are in my neighborhood and they not charge a fortune to enter their seminars, preferably its for free, I’ll go

Lol. No surprise there.

[Interloper]

No yielding at all. Instead it is in active receiving and re-directing the attacker's force through a very specific mechanical process. When the attacker shoves or punches, his force "bleeds away" as an effect of this process, and he falls into the void created by it.

Does your understanding of kuzushi comes from your self being able to apply it practical in a non compliant situation, on an of equal or even larger size opponent ? Or your understanding comes in the form of in the Dojo, grab my arm, no the other one situation?.....Yours explanation on this matters continue to sound as you are saying that with an “internally” lined up body meeting and dealing with “non internal” force head on is the thing to do ?

Yes, I can and have. I have applied it on a 350lb judoka (who was told to grab me and try to move or throw me), a 220 lb karateka (who was invited to charge directly into me to knock me over), and several others. I am a 5'5" 155lb woman. The reason why it works, is that their bodies are trained to work in pieces, sequentially, while internal training conditions the body to work in a unified, coordinated way in a continuous loop of power generation and structural maintenance. Even though they are very well coordinated and skilled at their arts, the way their bodies and arts are conditioned and designed, the upper and lower body are never truly unified. This creates openings and weaknesses that are exploited by people who do have the unified body and the related processes of movement.

No, force is not met "head on." Rather, it 1) is received and channeled through the body to the ground, and brought instantaneously back up from the ground through the body, back to the point of contact and into the attacker's center of mass, augmented by additional power created through the manipulation and mechinations of specific muscles, tendons, ligaments and fascia. Or 2) redirected and accelerated through subtle manipulation of those same connective tissues. How it is dealt with depends on the circumstances and what you want to do with the opponent's energy.

Hmmm, still sound as a “head on” approach, but I probably misunderstand your theorizing. In my mind there’s always a bit of yielding first in play to lead into emptiness, this momentum can be so quick and minimal to the point it’s misunderstood by inexperienced onlookers and inexperienced “attackers”. It can be so misunderstood that some practitioners make up another way of theory that eventually only work within ones own group of true believers.....

[Trick]

All you need to do is go visit one of these teachers or their senior students and feel for yourself. "Feeling is believing."

As soon they are in my neighborhood and they not charge a fortune to enter their seminars, preferably its for free, I’ll go

Lol. No surprise there.

What do you mean Lol ? Why should I go half around the globe for seminars with your teachers when I have first class teachers here in the country I reside in. But if they go here to teach, I’ll go and see what’s it’s all about. So what’s the lol about.

[taiwandeutscher]

Concerning the world cups in Taiwan, I did tell before:
Most 1st and 2nd grade Taiwanese do not compete in those, as they have the National Sports Competitions (Taiwanese only) shortly afterwards, where there is price money of up to 1700 US$. So, the good players tend to avoid a risk of getting hurt, in order to compete in best shape at the Nationals.
I have watched World Cups 1 - 5, don't go there anymore, as there was always a certain mix: some foreigners the older age (I hear the Russian Yiliqquan ppl did win a lot, young, energetic, and well trained), and many young Taiwanese, getting first experiences.

[marvin8]

IMO, a lot of the ZXD ILC that you see does not overtly show "kuzushi on contact," because practitioners in tournaments tend to meet and match their opponent's energy first, feel an opening (with listening skills) and then exploit it. It's a highly tactile art.

So, you agree that the posted ILC fight videos do "not show 'kuzushi on contact.'" Nor do you have videos showing "kuzushi on contact," other than demo videos.

I said that ZXD ILC practitioners don't -overtly- show kuzushi on contact, at least not in a tournament/competition setting, because the tactical approach is to meet and match the opponent, first, not to just crank the "peng" energy and pop him away.

There is no covertly showing ("don't -overtly- show") kuzushi on contact. By definition, one cannot covertly show off-balancing an opponent.

Per Daria Sergeeva & Dima Palii, a ZXD ILC practitioner either shows "off-balancing the opponent on contact" or doesn't show it. http://iliqchuan.ru/forum/archive/index.php?t-855.html:

Let's divide it into 2 parts:
1. Things which common observer can easily see - the external part. . . .

Some things which can be easily seen:

- Off-balancing the opponent on contact when striking or defending;

What can be seen in the clip, by seconds:

Semi-final:


:46 – :48 upper hands control . . .

2 min 26 sec – 2 min 27 sec – manipulating off-balanced opponent with meihua step . . .

The ZXD ILC push hands and sanda competition videos posted appear to show external kuzushi.

@ 19:57, Jimmy Heow demonstrates the difference between hard (external) and soft (internal) kuzushi on contact, “This is my cousin brother (referring to GM Sam Chin). Like this . . . “

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsJZHDDY3pI&t=19m57s

IMO, Alex Skalozub is a great teacher/coach (e.g., training methods, etc). But, I have not seen kuzushi on contact with 6-directional energy outside of the demo videos (e.g., in competition).

[Interloper]

What do you mean Lol ? Why should I go half around the globe for seminars with your teachers when I have first class teachers here in the country I reside in. But if they go here to teach, I’ll go and see what’s it’s all about. So what’s the lol about.

Well, people like to express skepticism about these methodologies, but they really don't care enough to make an effort to find the people with the skills, and test them. So, they spout criticisms that they refuse to back up with empirical experience and proofs. It's much easier to make casual pronouncements about the legitimacy, or lack thereof, of a method without using a scientific testing for first-hand results. Such criticisms thus have no value beyond just being an individual's uninformed opinion. I traveled to find my answers.

[Trick]

Yes it’s easy to jump to conclusions

[marvin8]

Push hands exchange with ILC people and opponent's reactions. (Couldn't find competition videos.).

Tracy68 Wu
Published on Oct 28, 2018

2018.10.28 The 7th World Cup Tai Chi, Push Hands Competition Off-Site Exchange in Taipei Little Arena:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zr-zai9VGeE


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0842LsUcOzM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haLlZ19dl7k