Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby GrahamB on Thu Dec 06, 2018 4:34 am

Can anybody link me to a video online of somebody from the Huang lineage demonstrating "combat efficiency"?

Thanks.
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Dec 06, 2018 5:04 am

cloudz wrote:
Wayne wrote:They become your pushing fodder for life


Let's remind ourselves - shall we - that Huang was hardly a stranger to "pushing fodder".


In his later years he certainally had a lot of fall guys

As for fighting Huang was the combat champion of Fukien at 22 but this was long before video
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Dec 13, 2018 11:04 am

wayne hansen wrote:This statement shows you haven't trained these exercises or have been shown them in an incorrect manner
They are the building blocks of the system
I don't say you judge tai chi on them but if you do them poorly it shows
It is easy to deskill students by showing them how to do these exercises incorrectly
They become your pushing fodder for life

So I happened to be watching this Huang Sheng Shyan video and around 2:45 he starts going into this pattern with some slight variations. It looks like the student is new to the exercise and he's teaching it to her.
What's your take on this version of the drill?
"My own knowledge is shallow and I await corrections from the intelligent."
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby cloudz on Fri Dec 14, 2018 3:46 am

It's a funny one isn't it.. because of his height he doesn't look in any danger. But that drill could work as a drill for a head pull into a knee (attempt), just including an escape using circling etc.

I know you were asking Wayne, but for me I would just try to make the fold at the waist absolutely minimal - as I described before. There could be the bones of a decent idea there - just putting some knees in to play around with and I think what's possibly useful and what's risky will become apparent. I think playing around with things should be encouraged rather than some monkey see monkey do type thinking. I imagione you probably agree.
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:54 am

I definitely enjoy tinkering. I showed this as I understood it to someone new last Sunday and he started throwing that arm up in a completely different fashion. We just added that neck grab to our bag of gambits for the session and played around with getting it and slipping it. Knees aren't really part of the game.

New things I've found is what you'd expect, the older the power get the more work you need from the left hand tiger mouth. If you catch it right you can just slip it without needing the support.
Last edited by oragami_itto on Fri Dec 14, 2018 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Dec 15, 2018 3:05 am

I think Huang had lost a lot of his flexability by the time this was filmed
I think the girl teaches in Sydney and it looks like she has never seen the exercise before
She is doing it pretty badly
The way Huang is grabbing her I think he is just trying to guide her through the basics
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