Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby RobP3 on Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:53 am

You're all missing the point, Mizner doesn't care about reality, he's making a good living from people who want this kind of training
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby GrahamB on Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:20 am

Wise you are, Rob.

RobP3 wrote:You're all missing the point, Mizner doesn't care about reality, he's making a good living from people who want this kind of training


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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:53 pm

He is not the only one in that boat
I still press my point that this is a great exercise when done right
All of Huangs pushing is great when done in their original manner
Many have changed over the years to become mere shadows of their original version
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby Trick on Sat Dec 01, 2018 12:57 am

Not too long ago Hang was around, and there’s videos of him performing on the tubes. Any idea why his sparring/ push hands exercises has changed ?
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:38 am

I have my theories why he changed some things but I would never make them public
His students are another thing their changes come in many guises
Some misunderstand
Some use them to remain incharge
Some do them well
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby GrahamB on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:14 am

This clinch defence really is powerful... $3,000 per ticket training event all sold out!

https://themartialman.com/intensive-mar ... Z796aFTlEQ

... and that doesn't include flights ;D
Last edited by GrahamB on Mon Dec 03, 2018 6:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Dec 03, 2018 12:03 pm

Not saying anything about the training or teachers
5 teachers over 13 days with tours and accomodation seems fair
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby Fa Xing on Mon Dec 03, 2018 1:51 pm

Here's my take on the subject of clinching, I only discussed the techniques to escape. No specific drills.

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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:38 pm

I take it you haven't heard of the Liverpool kiss
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby Fa Xing on Mon Dec 03, 2018 2:48 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I take it you haven't heard of the Liverpool kiss


LOL
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby Bao on Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:40 pm

Something you should understand about Thai Boxers especially is that they are very good at getting a clinch by compromising the structure on a guy that is standing with the spine straight up, and that they will use one attempt as a set up for another attempt using another angle. If you believe that you could easily raise up to a standing position if your back is already compromised you are just fooling yourself. If you believe that just standing there with a a straight spine will help you are also just fooling yourself. They won't freeze just because you try to keep your back straight. A whole lot of good martial artists and MMA fighters practice Muay Thai strategy and know everything about good and bad defences.

Maybe not the perfect vid, but at least a few examples here:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bS47tZ3ej9A
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby Trick on Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:08 am

Wonder if the Thai boxers IN Thailand are as harsh to Mizner as the “Thai-Chi” Boxers on the Internet are....?
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:18 am

Bao wrote:Something you should understand about Thai Boxers especially is that they are very good at getting a clinch by compromising the structure on a guy that is standing with the spine straight up, and that they will use one attempt as a set up for another attempt using another angle. If you believe that you could easily raise up to a standing position if your back is already compromised you are just fooling yourself. If you believe that just standing there with a a straight spine will help you are also just fooling yourself. They won't freeze just because you try to keep your back straight. A whole lot of good martial artists and MMA fighters practice Muay Thai strategy and know everything about good and bad defences.

Maybe not the perfect vid, but at least a few examples here:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=bS47tZ3ej9A


It's also unlikely the you can just push one of their arms while in full plum over your head so easily as in fa xing's video. If you're talking real clinch then you've got pressure against the back of your head, not neck, pulling it down.
In the original video, the complete exercise involves three key points.

1. Same side hand lifts with tiger mouth at elbow
2. Fold at kua with spine straight to change the angle of the contact point and slip out
3. Opposite side arm comes across to attach and attack through the originally clinching arm.

You really need all three elements in some fashion to make it effective
Last edited by oragami_itto on Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:54 am

Like all pushing the hand is not a hand
The way this exercise is meant to be done is to yield to force
The hands have little to do with it
I ask once again has anyone talking learned this exercise face to face and practiced it on a regular basis over years
I have been doing both and teaching versions of this exercise for well over 30 years
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Re: Push Hands - Head Pull (Clinch defense)

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:14 pm

Maybe you are talking about another exercise? Adam's is garbage without actual hands being involved.
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