GrahamB wrote:I thought "small frame Chen" just meant that same Chen form but with tighter circles (or a smaller emphasis).
HotSoup wrote:GrahamB wrote:I thought "small frame Chen" just meant that same Chen form but with tighter circles (or a smaller emphasis).
Actually, it has nothing to do with the size of circles. Both Big and Small frames start with big circles and shrink them alone with the student's progress. As the name states, the main difference is in the body frame each method tries to develop, which implies somewhat different body requirements, in how the yuandang is formed, for instance, or how the hands are used. Apparently, the forms are not the same either, but that is of lesser importance, of course.
In short, they are both sub-styles of Chen with their own lineages and masters. Studying Big Frame doesn't enable one to be able to practice the Small one, it's a different method that needs to be studied separately.
robert wrote:Originally it was called xinjia - new frame. Back in Chen Changxing's time he reworked the forms we have today. IIRC around the same time Chen Youben created the xinjia of the time, but the forms are virtually identical. When Chen Fake's changes came to the village the name xiaojia was given to the older xinjia , and now xinjia refers to Chen Fake's changes, so I wouldn't place too much meaning on the name. I haven't studied xiaojia, but that is the form that Chen Xin did and his book is the Chen taiji bible. There are a couple minor differences in the form, but the body requirements all seem the same as what I have been taught.
robert wrote:If someone can spell out specific differences in body requirements I'd like to see them.
I haven't studied xiaojia, but that is the form that Chen Xin did and his book is the Chen taiji bible. There are a couple minor differences in the form, but the body requirements all seem the same as what I have been taught.
Bao wrote:The large frame should be taught first, but not all Chen stylists progress from the large to the small.
Or as Chen Xin’s most famous student Chen Ziming wrote:
“I have heard that my late father’s Taiji skill was at the peak of perfection due to his “vanishing circles”. This is not something that is easy to come by. You must proceed step by step, shrinking from a large circle to a small circle, then shrinking from a small circle to a vanishing circle. You will then be using internal power to control an opponent, transforming constantly, wielding with ingenuity. When skill is at this level, one’s postures are totally unreadable.”
HotSoup wrote:. What they really are is the separate lineages and methods. The goals are the same, but some of the details of how to achieve them are not. Both frames are equal in what they are designed to achieve (as any other TJQ style, actually. No need to start with Sun to learn Wu/Hao).
nicklinjm wrote: this guy is showing fajin in almost every move - especially in the last few minutes of the form, much more 'martial' in appearance than most Wu/Hao. All the 'popular' styles (Yang, Hao, Wu) seem to have undergone the same change at around the same time - wonder why?
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