Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

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Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby marvin8 on Thu Mar 07, 2019 9:37 pm

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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby Subitai on Thu Mar 07, 2019 10:34 pm

PLUCK? As in taiji type Cai ....pluck?

Isn't this a video that is more about reach under and grab for the arm drag? (ok perhaps let him push me a bit and set up the arm drag?)
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Mar 07, 2019 11:04 pm

One of Huangs better exercises,swinging arms with some very important hand changes missing
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:14 pm

I wouldn't call it swing arms, swing arms is distinctly different. Looks like a variation to isolate the pluck from that exercise to use it in another context.
Last edited by oragami_itto on Fri Mar 08, 2019 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:40 pm

It is step 5 out of 7 in swinging arms leaving out a couple of important hand changes that make it effective
I might be wrong though I have only been teaching it for 40 years
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Mar 08, 2019 6:55 pm

I'm not saying you're wrong, by any means. I'm saying that I'm pretty sure Duran knows the proper swing arms pattern and this isn't intended to be or replace that. It's a different thing that uses a piece of it, hence the title "working the pluck". Adam Mizner teaches the full swing arms pattern in his online course and calls it one of the main foundations of his push hands method. I think it's safe to assume that the son of one of his top students is familiar with it.

Yours is probably better.
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:05 pm

A part or the whole the essence should still be there alas it's not
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Mar 08, 2019 8:33 pm

So are you saying that pluck is defined purely by its context within swing arms?
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:09 am

No just that is not just grabbing and giving a yank
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby Bao on Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:42 am

This is not pluck. What they practice on here is an external technique for push hands. This shown here has very little to do with genuine Tai Chi skills.
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby GrahamB on Sat Mar 09, 2019 6:45 am

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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Mar 09, 2019 8:44 am

Bao wrote:This is not pluck. What they practice on here is an external technique for push hands. This shown here has very little to do with genuine Tai Chi skills.


That's an interesting perspective. What, to you, makes it an external technique? How would you pluck in an internal fashion?
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby Bao on Sat Mar 09, 2019 12:41 pm

oragami_itto wrote:
Bao wrote:This is not pluck. What they practice on here is an external technique for push hands. This shown here has very little to do with genuine Tai Chi skills.


That's an interesting perspective. What, to you, makes it an external technique? How would you pluck in an internal fashion?


Jin in the eight jins means a skill. They all demand practice and precision of use. What is shown in the clip above is not a skill, it's a superficial and very limited technique that anyone can learn in two minutes. It has nothing to do with the Tai Chi Jin called Cai or pluck. Cai or pluck means that you are led into a hole. The opponent feels like he is plucked or snatched but that is the effect of suddenly having no ground under your feet, not the effect of beng physically grabbed.

Here is a better example from Eddie Kwong, still pretty simple and not one of the more advanced use of the principle.
Starting from 7.45
https://youtube.com/watch?v=CGZyiJartFk

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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Mar 09, 2019 2:30 pm

GrahamB wrote:


This guy gets it on every level
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Re: Duran Mack, London HME Affiliate — Working the pluck

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Mar 19, 2019 7:11 pm

After marvin explained his process I figured out how to make gifs from videos with VLC, ffmpeg, and the Gimp.
So that's an excuse to post me using this underhook/drag/pluck idea a couple ways in light push hands.

Image

Image
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