charles wrote:Back in the '90's, Mike Sigman was stating that Peng is "ground path". CXW, whom Mr. Sigman was heavily promoting at the time, stated unequivocally that Peng is not the same thing as "ground path". When someone did a "ground path", CXW would correct them and tell them not to do that because one could "know" them and feel and exploit their stance ("root") and center.
I agree that ground path and peng jin are not the same. I've done a number of workshops with Mike and when our paths cross we get to together and I find his ideas helpful. The workshops I went to Mike showed foot in the door exercises that serve as sign posts. If a person moves externally and is shown how do a ground path they do it externally. It takes a lot of work to internalize the movement. I don't know who the person was that you are talking about or what they did or what their skill level was. If a person is non athletic, hasn't worked out, and goes to a gym, if they are shown how to lift weights, they will not be dead lifting 300 lbs the next week
For the most I have verified much of what I understood from Mike's workshops working with CXW and his family although I didn't take it as dogma, but as a basic idea in which to understand what is explained in terms of qi theory and neijin.
charles wrote:I suggest that there is a difference between having a continuous, obvious "path" to one's root, one with no gaps or discontinuities, and the being "not there" that you described CXW doing. Hong taught, explicitly, not to move all of the body "together", that is, all of the parts move simultaneously in a coordinated way, but not "together". He called the error of moving "together", tossing. (Forms in his style are practiced the same way as applications.) A "ground path" is one example of everything moving "together" - all parts moving in the same direction at the same time.
The point I was making is that CXW's jin was not obvious. That depends on skill level. That's what the member rating is on this forum if I'm not mistaken - ming, ann, and hua jin, obvious, hidden, and mysterious jin.
charles wrote:The Village method does forms one way and applications another. Solo forms are taught so that the body moves "together", but effective application requires the parts be coordinated but not together, not everything moving in the same direction at the same time. In my experience, the Village teaching does not explicitly teach that distinction with the later being left to the student to figure out, or not.
You said together means in the same direction. In lan zhi yi the right hand rises and left hand lowers and circle in opposite directions - you call that
everything moving in the same direction at the same time?
I've done applications with CXW, CXX, CB, and CZQ and, except for hidden applications, they are done following the movement techniques used in laojia yilu.