Re: So why does Chen Pao Chui set look . . .
Posted: Tue May 21, 2019 9:30 pm
Bob wrote:Sorry not the Rotary Club - it's the Lion's Club in Taiwan - at the 20.01 mark, Du Yu Ze demonstrates Pao Chui - Although Du Yu Ze did learn Hu Lei Jia, his Chen's taiji, both yi lu and er lu came from Chen Yan Xi which puts it in the mid 1800s unless we speculate and say he learned it from the Hu Lei Jia master which is quite doubtful.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNULkvRqCnM
Wu Tan Masters in Venezuela and Taiwan in the 70's
Shifu Su Yu Chang, Shifu Dai Shi Zhe and students in Venezuela in the 70's.
Ancient Wu Tan Masters: Liu Yun Qiao, Shan Dong Cheng, Du Yu Tze and their students Xu JI (Adam Hsu), Wu Song Fa, Fu Shun Nan and others in Taiwan in the 70's.
Well, now that's good to see, that's at least getting somewhere.
So, then Chen Yan Xi had it, since it shows the same pattern of postures as the present day Pao Chui,
but man, that is like caveman Chen Pao Chui. The movements are executed very different from post Chen Zhao Pei version of the set.
Du's is still not at all like Shaolin Pao Quan in postures.
But you can see that Chen Zhao Pei and Chen Fake after coming back to Chen village brought a totally different flavor to the movements.
Du's version has many different moves and the sequences sometimes are in different order too, it is a lot longer with more postures.
Wish I could see a better video of this version of the set. (I wonder if Adam Hsu does this exact version just like this?, I so, I would buy the DVD).
The differences are remarkable, BUT STILL LIKE BAJI QUAN to me.
But now I think the connection to Baji might be from Shandong province, not Beijing. Because of Chen Yan Xi.
But Baji Quan originated in Shandong province, it is wide spread there contemporary with Chen Taiji times. Many times Chen family members were body guards and escorts there, such as:
12th generation, Chen Jing Bai;
15th generation, Chen Geng Yun, son of Chen Chang Xin (same time as Yang Lu Chan was there)
16th generation, Chen Yan Xi son of Chen Geng Yun, father of Chen Fake
Chen Yan Xi lived in Shandong for a number of years and 6 years in Tianjin, where Baji Quan was a major martial art in both areas.
Chen Yan Xi taught Chen martial arts in both areas, that's a fact.
If the generation before him didn't learn Chen Pao Chui because it was lost, perhaps he created what we now know as the ER LU pattern?
Especially since the only Pao Chui from Chen linage can be traced to his family line and students, such as Du Yu Tse.
And Baji Quan is known for its Splitting, Tearing, Shoulder, and Elbow techniques, and bursts of explosive movements.