Desperately seeking jump!

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Desperately seeking jump!

Postby Walk the Torque on Wed May 29, 2019 9:04 pm

Hi Folks,

can anyone help me find a clip of He Jinbao doing a sort of jumping exercise please?

From my vague memory he kept his legs straight'ish and did a sort of kua initiation. I cant seem to get the search function to pull it out.

Kind regards

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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby I-mon on Thu May 30, 2019 5:00 am

You sure it was He Jinbao, and not He Jinghan? I remember one where he did some qinggong stuff from years back, let me see if I can find it.
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby I-mon on Thu May 30, 2019 5:02 am

Was it this one?
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby Walk the Torque on Sun Jun 02, 2019 7:33 pm

Hi Simon,

yeah I saw this one but thank you for the effort :)

Could have been Jinghan. It was part of his Bagua training I think? such a long time ago.

anyway I was just exploring some "internal" plyo-metrics and wanted to see what he was doing. as I remember it he was in a bow stance and springing backwards with little to no movement from the legs; All kua work.

I'll be giving this a try over the next couple of months. The plyo work I'm doing at the moment is yeilding good results, so i'm keen to see what will happen with the aforementioned "kua jumps".

Peace & when will you be in Sydney next?. Would be great to chat and what not.
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby middleway on Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:46 am

anyway I was just exploring some "internal" plyo-metrics and wanted to see what he was doing. as I remember it he was in a bow stance and springing backwards with little to no movement from the legs; All kua work.


It was Her Jinghan i am pretty sure.

I think i know the video you are looking for.I just had a look for it but no joy, it is very possible he took it down. :(

There was lots of leaping about in He Jinghans method, in the very little i trained of it anyway.

Cheers.
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby marvin8 on Mon Jun 03, 2019 9:19 am

Walk the Torque wrote:Hi Simon,

yeah I saw this one but thank you for the effort :)

Could have been Jinghan. It was part of his Bagua training I think? such a long time ago.

anyway I was just exploring some "internal" plyo-metrics and wanted to see what he was doing. as I remember it he was in a bow stance and springing backwards with little to no movement from the legs; All kua work.

This one?

何靜寒
Published on May 28, 2006

Move with Gongjianbu stance ( without changing the stance):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1XPU7fs3-w

A few other "bumpping" videos.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rF9Fnff6oo


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQYW2ft5KE0


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht-_9ec0_w4
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby Walk the Torque on Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:05 pm

Hi Marvin,

thanks for that. Yep more like the first one, but the rest are good also.

It was a different clip but essentially the same thing.

I'll try these out. Cheers all.
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby middleway on Tue Jun 04, 2019 8:11 am

It was a different clip but essentially the same thing.


Those were the ones i was thinking of Marvin.

Would be interested in seeing the one you mean Konn, Do post if you ever find it.

thanks.
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby Peacedog on Tue Jun 04, 2019 10:26 am

FWIW,

I remember meeks talking about some exercises to drill qing gong as well.
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby Walk the Torque on Tue Jun 04, 2019 4:21 pm

Peacedog wrote:FWIW,

I remember meeks talking about some exercises to drill qing gong as well.


Yeah, however this was more to do with generating power. I remember Wang Su Jin had similar exercises where his students would lie on the floor and do little shuffles generated from the lower dan tien.

I particularly liked He Jinghan's ones though as it was possible to get a good idea of progress and also add (weights) to them for extra oomph.

My present combo of circle walking (with vest, ankle and hand weights), standing and plyo exercises has been really cool in sharpening the power. Thinking up Jin specific exercises is a lot of fun too.

Chris,

If I find that clip I'll post it for sure.

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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby marvin8 on Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:49 am

Walk the Torque wrote:
Peacedog wrote:FWIW,

I remember meeks talking about some exercises to drill qing gong as well.

he was in a bow stance and springing backwards with little to no movement from the legs; All kua work. . . .

Yeah, however this was more to do with generating power.

What do you mean by gongjianbu bumpping or "jumping" has "more to do with generating power" and "all kua work?" I may be misunderstanding the exercise.

Understanding they are "external," similarly, MMa/boxing has the hop step for agility, mobility, distance, lightness, etc. The gluteus muscles, calves and ankles are used more than the kua. Then in issuing, the kua (inguinal crease), rotation and weight transfer are used to generate power.

Here Conor uses hop stepping before KOing Aldo. On the left in the dressing room, Conor practices the exact same hop stepping move just before the fight:
Image

Also, MMA/boxing uses "bumping" (switching stances) to create angles:
Image
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby Walk the Torque on Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:56 pm

Hey Marvin8,

well I think the words are "Jin Specific"; for the training of Jin, not just movement.

"All Kua" relates to the majority of of the movement/force (95%) to leave the ground comes from the Kua/Dan Tien. Done this way the exercise isolates this movement in order to work on its speed, strength and co-ordination in order to get you off the ground. Having developed this explosive power it can then be metered down to direct the force through the torso/arms and hands.

When I am throwing the medicine ball to the re-bounder I mimic as closely as possible the actions of 'double push' or 'brush knee push step' from the Yang Style. The movement is kept as small as possible while doing enough to propel the medicine ball toward the rebounder and with as much speed and force to train an explosive Jin. My arms don't bend and straighten that much as I'm trying to drive the ball from my lower limbs and the kua/waist.

That's how I'm approaching plyo-metrics; with a more internalized movement.
Last edited by Walk the Torque on Wed Jun 05, 2019 5:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby marvin8 on Thu Jun 06, 2019 1:18 pm

Walk the Torque wrote:Hey Marvin8,

well I think the words are "Jin Specific"; for the training of Jin, not just movement.

"All Kua" relates to the majority of of the movement/force (95%) to leave the ground comes from the Kua/Dan Tien. Done this way the exercise isolates this movement in order to work on its speed, strength and co-ordination in order to get you off the ground. Having developed this explosive power it can then be metered down to direct the force through the torso/arms and hands.

Thanks. I was asking to better understand the purpose and application of "gongjianbu bumpping."

Take the Conor Aldo clip where Connor takes two hop steps back (springs backwards twice). Conor was able to relax, keep his stance, keep vertically level and deliver a KO. Which move do you feel provides more lightness in "springing backwards," Conor's hop steps or He Jinghan's gongjianbu bumpping? "Explosive power" isn't required to move nimbly and can be a hindrance.

Conor uses both jin and kua (and ground force) as defined by Zhang Yun and Bruce Frantzis respectively.
Zhang Yun wrote:Example: two identical twins, same size, same muscle composition – same level of li, one is a professional golfer, the other never golfs. . . His trained sibling uses something far more powerful and sophisticated. He has jin, and use it to great effect: he is able to drive the ball much further, place it on the course with much greater accuracy, and often with much less effort.


Walk the Torque wrote:When I am throwing the medicine ball to the re-bounder I mimic as closely as possible the actions of 'double push' or 'brush knee push step' from the Yang Style. The movement is kept as small as possible while doing enough to propel the medicine ball toward the rebounder and with as much speed and force to train an explosive Jin. My arms don't bend and straighten that much as I'm trying to drive the ball from my lower limbs and the kua/waist.

That's how I'm approaching plyo-metrics; with a more internalized movement.

I provided Phil Daru's website channel because "brush knee" shares similar biomechanics to a straight punch. One might use the same process but with customized adjustments for "internal" movements.
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby robert on Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:40 pm

marvin8 wrote:
Walk the Torque wrote:Hey Marvin8,

well I think the words are "Jin Specific"; for the training of Jin, not just movement.

"All Kua" relates to the majority of of the movement/force (95%) to leave the ground comes from the Kua/Dan Tien. Done this way the exercise isolates this movement in order to work on its speed, strength and co-ordination in order to get you off the ground. Having developed this explosive power it can then be metered down to direct the force through the torso/arms and hands.


Conor uses both jin and kua (and ground force) as defined by Zhang Yun and Bruce Frantzis respectively.
Zhang Yun wrote:Example: two identical twins, same size, same muscle composition – same level of li, one is a professional golfer, the other never golfs. . . His trained sibling uses something far more powerful and sophisticated. He has jin, and use it to great effect: he is able to drive the ball much further, place it on the course with much greater accuracy, and often with much less effort.


At that point in the article Zhang Yun is talking about jin in a general manner; later in the article he distinguishes external jin from internal jin. Walk the Torque seems to be talking about internal jin - the type of jin trained in xinyi/xingyi, taiji, bagua, and yiquan.
The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
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Re: Desperately seeking jump!

Postby marvin8 on Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:20 am

robert wrote:
marvin8 wrote:
Walk the Torque wrote:Hey Marvin8,

well I think the words are "Jin Specific"; for the training of Jin, not just movement.

"All Kua" relates to the majority of of the movement/force (95%) to leave the ground comes from the Kua/Dan Tien. Done this way the exercise isolates this movement in order to work on its speed, strength and co-ordination in order to get you off the ground. Having developed this explosive power it can then be metered down to direct the force through the torso/arms and hands.


Conor uses both jin and kua (and ground force) as defined by Zhang Yun and Bruce Frantzis respectively.
Zhang Yun wrote:Example: two identical twins, same size, same muscle composition – same level of li, one is a professional golfer, the other never golfs. . . His trained sibling uses something far more powerful and sophisticated. He has jin, and use it to great effect: he is able to drive the ball much further, place it on the course with much greater accuracy, and often with much less effort.


At that point in the article Zhang Yun is talking about jin in a general manner; later in the article he distinguishes external jin from internal jin. Walk the Torque seems to be talking about internal jin - the type of jin trained in xinyi/xingyi, taiji, bagua, and yiquan.

At that point in the article, Zhang Yun is talking about wai jin. I understood that and said:
marvin8 wrote:I provided Phil Daru's website channel because "brush knee" shares similar biomechanics to a straight punch. One might use the same process but with customized adjustments for "internal" movements.


Further down, Zhang says nei jin and wai jin are used together:
Zhang Yun wrote:2.2 Taiji Quan’s approach to fighting with nei jin and wai jin

As we can see, the characteristics of nei jin and wai jin complement each other in fighting, so
it is wrong to ignore either one in our training.
As each type of jin has its own unique set of
features, advantages, and disadvantages, during training we must strive to understand all of
them in detail
, so that when fighting we can use each when appropriate, as dictated by the
principles of Taiji Quan.
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