The Dantien

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The Dantien

Postby oragami_itto on Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:37 pm

Scott Park Phillips wrote:Advanced concepts in Tai Chi, Baguazhang, and Chinese Internal martial arts. Part of a series.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Bao on Sat Jun 08, 2019 10:14 pm

There is absolutely a historical consensus on what was originally meant by the the term dantian, how it was supposed to be used and developed. There are many classical texts to read and dig deeper into this subject. He proves himself to be completely ignorant of historical and cultural facts, about the very roots of the arts he apparently spent a whole lot of time compiling stuff about into a book.
Last edited by Bao on Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:49 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Strange on Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:34 pm

why i think it is dangerous to talk with westerners about cma
can spontaneously develop large amounts theories that is totally unrelated

my teacher said:
old masters do kung fu very good
people today talk kung fu very good
Last edited by Strange on Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

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Re: The Dantien

Postby GrahamB on Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:34 am

Strange wrote:why i think it is dangerous to talk with westerners about cma
can spontaneously develop large amounts theories that is totally unrelated



Westerners? You mean round eye foreign devils, surely.

Nice one.

I have no idea what he's talking about or where he got it from, since he doesn't say, but it doesn't mean people from Europe and America can't understand Chinese martial arts.

A side note: The idea that a search of the literature is proof is interesting. If people find, or don't find something in a book they attribute that higher value than whatever belongs in an oral tradition. Oral traditions are assumed to be fairytale, but if a literate Confucian scholar full of prejudices and biases and political influence writes something about Taoism in a book, then it's the law.
,
Last edited by GrahamB on Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:29 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Trick on Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:59 am

As I remember I commented on another thread where another of his books where promoted, I suspected he’s an dancer with some Taiji and Bagua, and yes I think my suspicion is comfirmed, a dance, actor and showman....His teaching of Taiji and Bagua might not add anything martial wise, but is probably great fun for other Dancers and Showmen/women 8-)
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Bhassler on Sun Jun 09, 2019 8:20 am

Ah, yes, the basis of genuine martial skill as represented in theater. As we all know, anything presented in mass media is absolutely true-- otherwise, how could they show it to so many people and have them enjoy it!

Truth be told, that's how I went from an ordinary person to being able to single-handedly take down military terrorist organizations in just a few weeks. I watched some action movies and realized what I needed was a montage.


Montage!

I remember reading a blog post of Scott's about a podcast with Rory Miller where Scott attributes a number of things to Rory that Rory never said, then misunderstands other "conditioning" and presents it in a different context with a meaning that, if anything, is opposite to what Rory teaches. I believe the term that Graham has been so fond of lately to describe this sort of thing is "fake news".

I will also say that Scott's Chen style is lacking, to say the least, and his application videos on Youtube are just bad. So he's got no academic/logical credibility to what he writes and nothing in his movement suggests that he is anything other than a guy who gets around to a lot of seminars so he can name drop and then invents a bunch of stuff to fill in the things he can't do, doesn't understand, or has never been taught. He's essentially a phony scholarship version of Jake Mace.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Jun 09, 2019 11:22 am

Not wrong there
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: The Dantien

Postby GrahamB on Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:09 pm

You're all so cocksure sure of yourselves, aren't you? It's impressive.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Bao on Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:59 pm

A side note: The idea that a search of the literature is proof is interesting. If people find, or don't find something in a book they attribute that higher value than whatever belongs in an oral tradition. Oral traditions are assumed to be fairytale, but if a literate Confucian scholar full of prejudices and biases and political influence writes something about Taoism in a book, then it's the law.


A suitable quote as it's from the Neidan classic The Secret of the Golden Flower (Jinhua zongzhi 金華宗旨) =

(Transmission from Master to Disciple)
Fundamentally, the Way is not hidden, but the transmission from Heart to Heart is extremely secret. And it is not only secret: if it is not transmitted from the Heart and received by the Heart, it can be neither transmitted nor received. The oral transmission is assuredly wondrous, but the understanding can hardly be complete. How much more could this be true if it is displayed in writing? Therefore the Great Way of the Most High upholds the transmission from Heart to Heart: it is transmitted and received in an invisible way. The understanding occurs unexpectedly. Neither can the master fix a time to transmit it to a disciple, nor can the disciple fix a time to receive it from a master. If one is truly faithful and utterly pure, as soon as the opportunity arises the spirits [of the master and the disciple] merge with one another and [the transmission] occurs clearly and unexpectedly. Sometimes they look at each other and smile together, other times one receives it in tears.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Bao on Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:17 pm

And BTW, the first detailed description of the (lower) Dantian can be found in the Laozi Zhongjing from the 2nd century AD, a text which connects philosophical Daoism with internal alchemy and is considered a forerunner to later Neidan tradition.

https://www.goldenelixir.com/taoism/tex ... gjing.html

(This text has absolutely nothing to do with theatre)
Last edited by Bao on Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Thoughts on Tai Chi (My Tai Chi blog)
- Storms make oaks take deeper root. -George Herbert
- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
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Re: The Dantien

Postby charles on Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:18 pm

GrahamB wrote:You're all so cocksure sure of yourselves, aren't you? It's impressive.


Well, just to be sure, I watched his video again, looked at his website, his list of teachers and other of his videos.

It seems that Mr. Phillips has an impressive imagination unimpeded by who or what has come before him. That leaves him free to make stuff up, which should not be confused with passing-on an established tradition.
Last edited by charles on Sun Jun 09, 2019 2:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby taiwandeutscher on Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:17 pm

Early on he seemed a genuine interested person, researching, traveling, training.
Later I saw his vids and was very much surprised.
Now, I know, he doesn't read Chinese, not modern nor to talk of classical.
Theater workshops with some bagua tea cups are fine, but why Bowman lets him take the stage is beyond my comprehension.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby I-mon on Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:49 pm

I like a lot of Scott's ideas. Whenever I see him on video, I can't help but think he has some pretty serious ADHD or something that makes him seem totally hyperactive whenever he is talking or demonstrating for the camera. So I try to give the guy a break, and I do genuinely appreciate his thoughts on the deep influence of theatre and ritual performance on the development of CMA, even if I'm never going to buy the whole package.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby dspyrido on Mon Jun 10, 2019 2:40 am

- The definition of IMA is the combination of golden elixir & martial skills.
- You want to teach someone to fight well you "give them the golden elixir" or a pill.
- Because the golden elixir after the boxer rebellion was associated with invulnerability it became as source of shame.

Now buy my book.

I am pretty sure this is all nonsense. Was this meant to be a joke?

As for the definition of DT.... instead of listening to this guy .... dear RSF community -

- What is your view of what it is?
- How is it applied?
- How do you train it?
- How do you test you have "it"? (so as to avoid claiming you are a master of something that cannot be exhibited)
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Strange on Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:14 am

GrahamB wrote:You're all so cocksure sure of yourselves, aren't you? It's impressive.


:D :D :D
telling it like it is, isn't cocksure my fren
it's being brutally honest
Last edited by Strange on Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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