The Dantien

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Re: The Dantien

Postby oragami_itto on Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:36 pm

WTFBBQ The hits keep comin

Advanced concepts in Tai Chi, Baguazhang, and Chinese Internal martial arts.
Discussing the Daoyin basics that create reverse rooting and other high-level skills.
Part of a series.

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Re: The Dantien

Postby everything on Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:15 pm

just going from everyone's comments, I just did a facepalm and moved on.

but it can be funny to read the responses without actually ever watching the video.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:26 am

oragami_itto wrote:WTFBBQ The hits keep comin

Advanced concepts in Tai Chi, Baguazhang, and Chinese Internal martial arts.
Discussing the Daoyin basics that create reverse rooting and other high-level skills.
Part of a series.



Well, he is never boring...
... and now when he has said that he has got hold on that super secret training that no one else understand and actually makes Tai Chi works... well... it's bound to get more interesting. Or? :P :-\ ... -shrug-
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Re: The Dantien

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:12 am

I just want to know what "reverse rooting" is but he won't answer the question.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:17 am

oragami_itto wrote:I just want to know what "reverse rooting" is but he won't answer the question.


Maybe you can ask Mark Rasmus?
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- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Trick on Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:06 am

oragami_itto wrote:I just want to know what "reverse rooting" is but he won't answer the question.

you need first to tune in to his upside down world
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Re: The Dantien

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:10 am

Bao wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:I just want to know what "reverse rooting" is but he won't answer the question.


Maybe you can ask Mark Rasmus?

He never answered my email either. Harrumph.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:39 am

oragami_itto wrote:
Bao wrote:Maybe you can ask Mark Rasmus?

He never answered my email either. Harrumph.


No? -shrug-

Maybe you didn't express enough admiration? ??? ... ;D
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Re: The Dantien

Postby charles on Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:45 am

If one were being kind, one could argue that Mr. Phillips provides an example of just how much variation is included under the umbrella of modern usage of the term "Tai Chi".

Even though he and I have had at least one of the same teachers, his "Tai Chi" has almost nothing in common with mine. A very large umbrella.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:27 pm

Reverse rooting is what a lot of people are doing for their teachers
For it to work it must be used with reverse neutralising
There is a lot of crap in this clip but there is also some truths
His take on dan tien is interesting

https://youtu.be/S1y_aeCYj9c
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Re: The Dantien

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:21 pm

Reverse rooting is what a lot of people are doing for their teachers


Hmm, no, don't think that's what he's talking about.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby Bao on Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:38 pm

wayne hansen wrote:There is a lot of crap in this clip but there is also some truths


Yes...

wayne hansen wrote:His take on dan tien is interesting
https://youtu.be/S1y_aeCYj9c


Don’t agree with his view. From a traditional Neidan POV, if there is nowhere to store, there is nowhere to refine. It’s not the Dantian that is refined, it’s the jing and qi that are refined.

Btw... From a Martial Arts POV, speaking about the Dantian is redundant. You don’t need either Dantian, Qi nor Jing to be able to use the belly (or Hara).
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Re: The Dantien

Postby marvin8 on Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:48 pm

oragami_itto wrote:I just want to know what "reverse rooting" is but he won't answer the question.

My guess is it has to do with dynamic rooting. Scott's writings on rooting.

Excerpt from "Four Elements of Pure Internal Martial Arts:"
Scott Park Phillips on January 08, 2018 wrote:Back to my list of Elements. Neigong is super important. It can be cultivated by itself. For instance, acrobats tend to have awesome Neigong skills. But to use them for fighting one must have both Counterbalance skills and Pure Jing. Otherwise the movement is too easy for the opponent to read. It will not work on its own. Also Neigong is key because it is totally incompatible with Neijin. Why? Because Neijin requires a positive root. Rooting will kill Neigong. To develop Neigong one must have reverse root.

All of the Elements mix like this. They need each other. I have worked with acrobats that had awesome counterbalance skills on the first day. But to use those for fighting one needs Pure Jing to create an illusion. (Although anyone with fighting skills will fight even better with counterbalance skills-- they just won't be "internal.")


Excerpt from "Steamy Woman, Watery Woman, Icy Woman:"
Scott Park Phillips on October 28, 2009 wrote:The first level of practice is called "Icy Woman." At this level we develop a root so that when pushed the opponent's force is directed through our body down to the ground. As the Icy Woman's structure improves she is able to keep this rooted quality continuously during dynamic movement. If played as a game, both people will try to keep even pressure on their opponent's root. The moment the pressure is broken either partner can move to sever their opponent's root. The game can also be won root-to-root. In this case each person uses a blend of twisting, wrapping, expanding and condensing to improve the integration of their root. Root against root, the better root will win. . . .

The third level of practice is called "Steamy Woman." At this level her body becomes cloud-like. Empty and full at the same time. When the Steamy Woman meets ice or water in her opponents she simply floats them out of the way. Her mind is not on her body at all, but all around it at play with the elements of volume, momentum, and density. Inside a steam-like feeling moves around freely without regard to purpose or concept. Like a cloud, it has no agenda. Outside the game is played by the shifts and swirls of presence.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:58 pm

marvin8 wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:I just want to know what "reverse rooting" is but he won't answer the question.

My guess is it has to do with dynamic rooting. Scott's writings on rooting.

Excerpt from "Four Elements of Pure Internal Martial Arts:"
Scott Park Phillips on January 08, 2018 wrote:Back to my list of Elements. Neigong is super important. It can be cultivated by itself. For instance, acrobats tend to have awesome Neigong skills. But to use them for fighting one must have both Counterbalance skills and Pure Jing. Otherwise the movement is too easy for the opponent to read. It will not work on its own. Also Neigong is key because it is totally incompatible with Neijin. Why? Because Neijin requires a positive root. Rooting will kill Neigong. To develop Neigong one must have reverse root.

All of the Elements mix like this. They need each other. I have worked with acrobats that had awesome counterbalance skills on the first day. But to use those for fighting one needs Pure Jing to create an illusion. (Although anyone with fighting skills will fight even better with counterbalance skills-- they just won't be "internal.")


Excerpt from "Steamy Woman, Watery Woman, Icy Woman:"
Scott Park Phillips on October 28, 2009 wrote:The first level of practice is called "Icy Woman." At this level we develop a root so that when pushed the opponent's force is directed through our body down to the ground. As the Icy Woman's structure improves she is able to keep this rooted quality continuously during dynamic movement. If played as a game, both people will try to keep even pressure on their opponent's root. The moment the pressure is broken either partner can move to sever their opponent's root. The game can also be won root-to-root. In this case each person uses a blend of twisting, wrapping, expanding and condensing to improve the integration of their root. Root against root, the better root will win. . . .

The third level of practice is called "Steamy Woman." At this level her body becomes cloud-like. Empty and full at the same time. When the Steamy Woman meets ice or water in her opponents she simply floats them out of the way. Her mind is not on her body at all, but all around it at play with the elements of volume, momentum, and density. Inside a steam-like feeling moves around freely without regard to purpose or concept. Like a cloud, it has no agenda. Outside the game is played by the shifts and swirls of presence.



I see.
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Re: The Dantien

Postby GrahamB on Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:12 am

https://youtu.be/enhYqX8fbwE

This is the latest - I think he should have posted this first as it gives context.

I’m still unfamiliar with this golden elixir concept but there’s stuff in this one that I’ve heard from a traditional teacher at least.

The definition of internal vs shaolin with the quiet /active mind or body is similar to what I’ve heard from traditional teachers. And the idea of intent being ‘outside the body’ makes sense - when you punch your focus is on where the power is going not on the inside of your body.

The rest of it - I don’t now.
Last edited by GrahamB on Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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