Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby Giles on Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:02 am

wayne hansen wrote:I think your splitting hairs there origami if you are doing an online course you are a student


I think I would agree with Origami here. In the context of CMA, saying you are “a student” of an established teacher would normally be taken as describing some kind of personal teaching/learning relationship. Not as strong/deep as “disciple”, but at the very least that student and teacher are personally acquainted and that they have contact on a regular, if not necessarily frequent, basis. Otherwise you could just say “I learn/learned some stuff from this teacher” for instance.

Origami: Does this Mizner online course also involve you getting repeated personal correction through a 2-way video link or similar?
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:21 am

Giles wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:I think your splitting hairs there origami if you are doing an online course you are a student


I think I would agree with Origami here. In the context of CMA, saying you are “a student” of an established teacher would normally be taken as describing some kind of personal teaching/learning relationship. Not as strong/deep as “disciple”, but at the very least that student and teacher are personally acquainted and that they have contact on a regular, if not necessarily frequent, basis. Otherwise you could just say “I learn/learned some stuff from this teacher” for instance.

That is my understanding and intention here. We don't have a relationship therefore I consider myself a customer. If I felt I were a student I would feel the burden of representing the school and I would owe some loyalty. At this point that would feel like cosplay. I pay money, I watch videos, I'm a customer.

Maybe I'm a little more adamant about it here, and with marvin in particular, due to the context that he brought it up within originally, naming Adam my Sifu and demanding I reconcile perceived differences in our stated opinions or approach to aspects of the art. I'm not interested in that game. I speak for myself and from my own flawed understanding, for better or worse.

Origami: Does this Mizner online course also involve you getting repeated personal correction through a 2-way video link or similar?

You can pay extra for webcam corrections with Curtis, I haven't done that. There's also a facebook group where people sometimes post forms and senior students, sometimes Adam, comment. I don't find the feedback given to be particularly useful usually. "You're doing great" "More up and down" "review the video to see what you're doing wrong there". I get corrections through practice and push hands. I study more than Mizner's material.

If this workshop happens, then there's that, but this video coming down suddenly does not look good for promotion.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby marvin8 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:06 am

oragami_itto wrote:
marvin8 wrote:
Bhassler wrote:Wait.... Marvin wrote a book?

No. oragami_itto is "spreading blatant falsehoods." Or, he got me mixed up with someone else. There's no obsession on my part, just discussion.


My mistake, then.

What do you call it when you're standing by ready to drop a supercut of conversations from months ago, to make what point? . . . So you can disparagingly refer to him as my Sifu as you have in the past?

I did not say it "disparagingly." I referred to Mizner as your sifu as a shortcut and to illustrate the irony of the situation. I quoted you as not to imply any other relationship other than what you already stated yourself:

1. You took his Online Tai Chi Training Program
2. You stated, "His online/video course is fantastic . . . "
3. "We're hosting him (Curtis from Mizner's company) September 7-8."

About lifting heels you stated, "ridiculous . . . And then you talk of lifting heels? How much of a thing can you change and still call it that thing?"

The irony is Mizner lifts his heel. One may ask from your statements: Is Mizner being ridiculous by lifting his heel, changing things, not doing tai chi?
marvin8 wrote:Besides Chen Ziqiang, here are more "lifting up the heel" from oragami_itto's sifu Adam Mizner, . . .
Image


oragami_itto wrote:I apologize for offending you by saying you spread blatant falsehoods. We can just chalk it up to a difference of opinion regarding the use of the term and what implications it carries.

You didn't offend me.

oragami_itto wrote:Maybe I'm a little more adamant about it here, and with marvin in particular, due to the context that he brought it up within originally, naming Adam my Sifu and demanding I reconcile perceived differences in our stated opinions or approach to aspects of the art. I'm not interested in that game. I speak for myself and from my own flawed understanding, for better or worse.

I did not demand anything. I only brought up the contradiction in what you stated and what Mizner demonstrates. It's your choice whether to discuss/clarify it or not.
Last edited by marvin8 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby Giles on Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:13 am

Thanks for the clarification, Origami.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:37 am

Do you call what he is doing "Brush Knee and Twist Step"? I wouldn't. The discussion regarding lifting the heel was in relation to "Brush Knee and Twist Step". There's your clarification.

I do not believe that it is proper to lift the heel when performing "Brush Knee and Twist Step" if you do, then our experience differs. That's fine. You have your taijiquan, and I have mine. You have your obsessive compulsive disorder and I have my don't give a fuck.
Last edited by oragami_itto on Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby marvin8 on Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:38 pm

oragami_itto wrote:. . . To me saying I am someone's student implies a relationship that does not exist between myself and Adam Mizner. We don't know each other, we don't owe each other. I give him money and watch his videos. I am a customer. He is certainly not my Sifu. That is a blatant falsehood.


Excerpt from "Discover Taiji - DISCOVER TAIJI With Sifu Adam Mizner:"
Discover Taiji wrote:Among the Discover Taiji course students, there are a number of seasoned Taijiquan (Tai Chi Chuan) teachers who are incorporating the training methods into their current practice, as well as many beginners and intermediate Tai Chi practitioners. Wherever you’re at, this course is guaranteed to help you develop or further increase your internal skill like no other, in a step by step fashion thanks to Adam Mizner’s clear and concise way of teaching and most thorough instructions.

The course material is complemented by an exclusive membership to the Discover Taiji facebook group, where Adam Mizner personally, together with his senior instructors and fellow students, provide guidance, motivate and support students’ training, sharing insight and giving feedback, along with a great community experience making it truly interactive.


Excerpt from "Interview with Sifu Adam Mizner - Tai Chi Chuan Magazine:"
Sifu Adam Mizner wrote:Because there are many people I can only see once or twice a year in a workshop situation, and because most people simply don’t have any access to genuine taijiquan instruction, I have after much persuasion from my students designed and released an online training program. The discovertaiji.com program gives students the tools to develop their own skills step by step and thus alleviate all doubt for themselves.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Jul 05, 2019 3:38 pm

I can tell this is very important to you and I'm sorry I can't do more to help you.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:17 am

I replaced the video with a working link. Apparently they didn't have a release for everybody in the first version so had to make some edits.

I mean in case anybody wants to actually discuss the video.
Last edited by oragami_itto on Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby Bao on Tue Jul 09, 2019 5:44 am

oragami_itto wrote:I mean in case anybody wants to actually discuss the video.


Well... I tried last time but you seemed to not want to do so...

Looks like a re-edit. It's better now. Still wondering what you see here.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:07 am

It is what it is. by all accounts Curtis is a fantastic practitioner but you never know for sure until you touch somebody what they've got that you don't.

Now you, any thoughts?
Last edited by oragami_itto on Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby Bao on Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:31 am

oragami_itto wrote:It is what it is. by all accounts Curtis is a fantastic practitioner but you never know for sure until you touch somebody what they've got that you don't.


I don’t know anything about if he is a fantastic or not or from where that assumption comes from. But I don’t know much about this organization.

Now you, any thoughts?


I only see technique here so I can’t say very much. When it comes to demonstration in class, I am on no big fan of moving fast and use speed against students to take advantage of them. But I’ve watched many who has similar approach, Ma Jiangbao for instance, overpowering his students with a speed that is very hard to keep up with. IMO following and mirroring becomes lost this way. It all becomes a question of dominating the objects with a few simple tricks and techniques. Curtis though seems more relaxed than many others in HME. I see a lot of use of unnecessary strength in most of their demos. Not so much here. So I am not negative about what I see here, I just can’t see any particular skill beyond technique. But this doesn’t mean that he has no good skills. Just that I can’t see it right here.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby oragami_itto on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:24 am

I think the idea is to show what the workshop is like. It's not so much somebody standing and demonstrating spooky woo woo skills on a demo partner, but some jibengong and a series of two person drills with varying levels of aliveness within the context.

The push hands curriculum is largely the various drills and a tiny bit of free push, which is as Huang taught it as well as far as I understand.

I was mainly excited by this one because some locals expressed concerns he looked thuggish and overbearing in the previously available video and I'm trying to help promote the event so we'll have enough participation to make it successful

https://youtu.be/nVcuH8DuB_Y
Last edited by oragami_itto on Tue Jul 09, 2019 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Curtis Brough March 2019 US Tour

Postby Bao on Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:07 am

oragami_itto wrote:I was mainly excited by this one because some locals expressed concerns he looked thuggish and overbearing in the previously available video and I'm trying to help promote the event so we'll have enough participation to make it successful

https://youtu.be/nVcuH8DuB_Y


That is understandable. Maybe this new vid is better for promotion. I would think so. I wish you good luck.
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