Shaolin Series Going Up Now

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Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby chenyaolong on Sat Jul 06, 2019 6:56 pm

I'm back from Henan and editing the series now. Here' the trailer. First episode is a tour of the temple and intro to the history. Maybe a bit basic for you guys, but if you are interested it should pop-up at the end of the series trailer.

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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby nicklinjm on Sun Jul 07, 2019 11:37 pm

Great stuff man, looking forward to the rest of the videos in the series!
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby Trick on Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:21 am

Reading a thread at another MA forum, about the Japanese Shorinji-Kempo. How that organisation early on declared Japanese Shorinji-Kempo to be the true inheritor of Shaolin quan-fa, the boxing that came out of the Shaolin temple.
The founder of SK Doshin-So had declared that during his visit to the temple Shaolin boxing was as good as dead in China and that he was the one that managed to inherit it.
Delegations from the SK headquarter in Japan have through the years been going to China trying to find real Chinese GongFu making challenges but with no luck, no one stepped up, which made the Shorinji-Kempo organization even more sure that true Shaolin boxing was now only practiced within their organization, that indeed Shaolin boxing was dead in China.
And there are claims that the movie “Shaolin” starring Jet Li was only possible to make because of the support from the SK organization, and so where also the revival of the temple possible because of them.


They also made the conclusion that there were no such thing as Chinese martial arts of the internal such as Xingyiquan and Taijiquan, it was all just fantasies.
That was up until 1982 when one of SK top names had an “fight” with The famed Wang Peisheng , then they humbled up ??


Back in the days there was indeed some quite interesting histories going around 8-)
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby edededed on Mon Jul 08, 2019 6:51 pm

I heard that the Shorinji-Kempo organization in Japan actually copyrighted the name "Shorinji" (means Shaolin Temple) in Japan...

As for Shaolin movie - at the time, Japanese yen was very strong compared to PRC renminbi, so people were able to make "huge" donations with what was actually not much money in Japan at the time. Probably this is what happened back then...
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:20 pm

When I was a young guy in 1975 I fought a sk 2nd dan in Kyoto
After the fight he took off his black belt and gave it to me
I liked the style and their Chinna
Their kicks were good but I found their punching methods a little strange
They taught me some good dim mak and even let me knock them out
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:03 am

The little Shorinji-Kempo I’ve seen(was a Japanese teacher teaching in my hometown in the 80’s) They basically just have the chudan-tzuki(mid level/torso fist strike) done a little like an XYQ pao quan, but more snappy and no XYQ footwork. And the other characteristic technique is the opening “preparedness” posture, a posture they also
go back into after exchanging blows during their two person katas practice that seem to be a major training tool in their system. With a big portion of imagination one could maybe se a Pi-quan’ish technique in that “preparedness” posture.
I refer to XYQ because that was probably what the founder of SK witnessed at the Shaolin temple when he was there, or more exactly XinYiBa. The name of the monk he learned from I found in another text as the monk that Wang Xiangzhai met during his visit to the temple, and his conclusion was basically the same as Doshin-So’s, that the boxing at the temple was non existent except for two exercises/techniques the just the one monk could show.
Wang was not impressed, probably because the monk couldn’t do them good application wise ?
It might be just those two exercises Doshin-So learned at the Shaolin. The rest, kicks, throws, joint manipulation he most certainly picked up from other Japanese MA


So that’s how much/little “Shaolin”Shorinji-Kempo seem to be.....Interesting about the Japanese teacher in my hometown he didn’t call what he taught Shorinji-Kempo, but instead “North Shaolin Kung-Fu “...He was/is actually really skilled, and produced some strong students, so Shaolin or not it seem to have value as an MA
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:04 am

Looking forward to watch the series
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby GrahamB on Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:40 am

Cool. Does anybody know how old that famous painting with the indian and chinese monks fighting in is?
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby Trick on Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:58 am

Yes that’s something I too wonder about. That’s the mural the shorinji Kempo founder supposedly drew inspiration from, which kind of tells how much actual Shaolin boxing he learned at the temple or even China.
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby chenyaolong on Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:21 pm

The monk, Shi Yan Cui, said it dates to the Ming Dynasty. He didnt say what year, but makes it between like 300-700 years old....
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby Trick on Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:38 am

I’ve never been to the temple. Is that mural well protected ? when seeing pictures of it it look quite well preserved especially if it’s let’s say about 500 years old and has been out in the “open”.
The Indian monks, could very well be Persian ? But maybe they actually didn’t have that dark skin as Indian can have. Anyway back then some 500 years ago quite many Persian traders had settled around in Henan(Kaifeng).
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby marvin8 on Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:02 am

GrahamB wrote:Cool. Does anybody know how old that famous painting with the indian and chinese monks fighting in is?

Excerpt from "Indian Influence on Yue Chia:"
Boris Layupan wrote:
Image
Murals of martial arts at the Shaolin Temple depicting a dark-skinned Indian (possibly Bodhidharma).

The dhayana master Bodhidharma, who transmitted Ch'an Buddhism to China and was China's first Buddhist patriarch, also began the physical training of the Shaolin monks and nuns. This physical training led to the formation of Shaolin martial arts or Shaolin quan (少林拳; Shàolín quán), including the Northern Shaolin style of Yue Chia or Yuejiaquan (岳家拳, literally Yue Family Fist, alternately Yue Ch'uan). This style of Yue Chia developed from the first Shaolin temple founded by Buddhabhadra in Henan province during the 5th century AD, distinct from the style created by Yue Fei, a Song dynasty (Chinese: 宋朝; pinyin: Sòng cháo; 960–1279) era general. . . .

Image
Mural #1 of Baiyi Hall in the Shaolin Temple of monks at practice.

The exact date for these two frescos has not been determined, however they were likely done sometime between the late 1700 's and the 1800 's during the early part of the Qiánlóng Emperor 's reign (1735-1796) or possibly earlier during the reign of the Kangxi Emperor (1661-1722). The two emperors were of the Manchu Qing dynasty (清朝; pinyin: Qīng cháo). It was founded in 1636 and ruled China from 1644 to 1912. The murals suggest two things. The first conclusion is that a significant part of martial art training and practice at Shaolin involved two or more persons sets known as Shuang Yan (雙演; Double Play) Dui Da (對打; Playing) and Dui Lian (對練; Practice). The second observation is that the Shaolin monks believed that both Ch’an Buddhism and their system of quan fa, or martial arts, came from India and that Bodhidharma was instrumental to both. The above fresco of Baiyi Hall in the Shaolin Temple shows sixteen pairs of monks practicing Dui Lian of which ten pairs are practicing weapon sets and six pairs involved in barehand sets. There are also three monks in protective positions placed just to the left and right of Buddha in the upper pavilion, who are practicing single sets, two of the monks with weapons (練兵器 ; pinyin: liàn bīngqì; Training Weapon) the other monk practicing a barehand set (練拳套; pinyin: liàn quán tào; Training Gloves). This weapons dominated mural is painted in the style of Qing artists of the early to mid Qing period specializing in large-scale decorative works. They were employed to produce documentary, commemorative, and decorative works for the imperial palaces, which suggests that it may have done with the support of Kangxi Emperor, who was a supporter of Shaolin Temple. These master artists drew upon the representational styles of the Song dynasty (Chinese: 宋朝; pinyin: Sòng cháo; 960–1279). In the fresco, Bodhidharma is enshrined at the center in the lower base pavilion. The placement symbolizes Ben (本; root), the qualities of a sage ruler” and Men (門; gateway, doorway), the opening to the Tao or “Emptiness.” We know that this figure is Bodhidharma because above him are the characters, 本諦 源祖 (Ben Di Yuan Zu) which means, "The Root of Truth's Origin is Bodhidharma" or alternately "Bodhidharma is the Method's Origin." On the pavilion's right it is written 法力無邊 (Fa Li Wu Bian) which means: "The Power of the Way has no Boundary" and on the pavilion's left it is written, 佛恩廣大 (Fo En Guang Da), which means, "Buddha's Benevolence is Vast." Emerging from the left door of the pavilion is a bearded monk, who may depict Bodhidharma holding a mace. The mace is a weapon for crushing and symbolizes the smashing of the ignorance and emotional defilements created by karma (因果). His position by the side of the center gate symbolizes the "defense of the gate."

Image
Mural #2 of Baiyi Hall in the Shaolin Temple of monks at practice.

The second fresco titled "Methods of Martial Arts" in Baiyi Hall is rendered in a more realistically style in imitation of Western naturalism. The mural has less ornamentation, influenced by the Western technique of linear perspective and realistically painted trees. The second mural was likely done more recently during the 1800s. It shows sixteen pairs of monks practicing barehand Dui Lian (對練.) and conspicuously lacking weapons, which may indicate the political climate of the period in which the Shaolin monks and nuns were banned by the Qing dynasty from wielding weapons.

The large non-Chinese dark skinned monk in the center likely depicts Bodhidharma. The composition is intentionally symmetrical and the positioning of the figure marks Bodhidharma's centrality to the Shaolin Temple's belief system. By the 18th century, it was a convention that Bodhidharma be depicted with a beard and it is very likely him as the figure is the only one, who is bearded.

Significant numbers of dark skinned monks and masters, likely representing Indian masters training with and teaching Chinese monks, is not about documentation but the idealization of the belief of the Shaolin monks that the source of martial arts and its reason for being – cultivating Enlightenment and offering protection – was India. During the Ming (大明; pinyin: Dàmíng; 1368–1644) and Qing periods there were very few remaining Buddhist communities in India and the movement of monks between India and China suggested in these Qing dynasty era frescos, occurred much earlier. By the 11th century, Buddhism was in decline in India and at the end of the 12th century when invading Turkish Moghul (Mongol) Muslims had conquered Magadha, the heartland of Buddhism in India, and wiped out Buddhism. By then movement of monks between China and India had largely stopped and no records exist of important monks journeying from India to China.
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby chenyaolong on Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:46 am

Normally you aren't allowed inside the halls themselves. We got permission to go in as we were filming. The condition of them isn't great, and a couple have graffiti on them.

Here's some detail on one of them. I'll put the whole set up on Facebook when I get chance https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid ... =3&theater
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby GrahamB on Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:58 am

With all due respect to the monk... I did a little research...

The mural uses single point perspective, which is not usually found in Chinese art, so it's probably a 19th century or even early 20th century picture.
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Re: Shaolin Series Going Up Now

Postby Bao on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:33 pm

GrahamB wrote:The mural uses single point perspective, which is not usually found in Chinese art, so it's probably a 19th century or even early 20th century picture.


Exactly! 8-) The one point perspective comes form western art, nowhere to be found in Chinese traditional painting, so of course it's something made in the 20th century. If it was earlier it would have been done in a traditional Chinese way of depicting perspective.
Last edited by Bao on Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:34 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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