dedicated to the discussion of the chinese internal martial arts of xingyiquan, baguazhang, taijiquan, related arts, and anything else best discussed over a bottle of rum http://rumsoakedfist.org/
I think if you are dealing with an opponent who has a very low level of skill then yes.
Anyone with significant training will not be stopped with these and that goes for drugged up opponents as well.
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:12 am
by wayne hansen
I approach Chinna from a different point of view It is about training in body mechanics not about practical application on the street I am not saying there isn't places it works on the street but it goes beyond that Just like bjj there are times it works The guy in these clips has not trained wrist locks to any degree you can see that by how he apples them
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:06 pm
by marvin8
One may say the OP video demonstrates a small difference in timing. But, it shows the difference between what works and what doesn't.
Can wrist locks (less so), wrist control (or grabbing, arm wrapping, trapping, etc) work? Yes, they have worked many times in certain situations (e.g, distance, etc.). The question is not if they work but, when and how?
One can train (e.g., 1000 x day) for an opponent that throws a punch without retracting it (leaves arm out) or an opponent that retracts their punch. However, potential problems with training for an opponent that leaves their punch out include:
1. learn to chase hands — exposes oneself to an opponent feinting a straight right and throwing a left hook (as stated in the OP video). 2. learn the wrong timing 3. loss of opportunity (time) to learn, develop or practice moves that actually work against someone who retracts their punches. 4. predictability — one may show patterns or intentions 5. slower, out of position, can be countered 6. false sense of security, etc
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:40 pm
by C.J.W.
IMO, qinna is complementary to striking (da) and grappling (shuai) and not suited to be applied by itself in a real fight.
Also, my rule of thumb for effectively applying qinna is to always establish control over the larger body parts (head, spine, shoulder, hip, etc) and then move onto the smaller joints like elbow, wrist, and fingers.
As shown in the video, most people, when trying to apply qinna, always attempt to grab a hold of the small joints like wrists, hands, and fingers, from the getgo, which is difficult to achieve and unlikely to succeed.
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:07 am
by middleway
When I was training a lot of traditional ju jutsu I got into an altercation with a 'self proclaimed' Gypsy boxer.
We took it outside the pub and the first thing he did was grab me (A VERY unexpected move for someone who claimed they were a gypsy boxer), I immediately applied a wrist lock, elbowing him in the face as i did so and throwing him into a car door headfirst, he this proceeded to hide under the car and shout apologies to me.
While i agree with the general premise of the video ... never say never.
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:59 am
by marvin8
middleway wrote:When I was training a lot of traditional ju jutsu I got into an altercation with a 'self proclaimed' Gypsy boxer.
We took it outside the pub and the first thing he did was grab me (A VERY unexpected move for someone who claimed they were a gypsy boxer), I immediately applied a wrist lock, elbowing him in the face as i did so and throwing him into a car door headfirst, he this proceeded to hide under the car and shout apologies to me.
While i agree with the general premise of the video ... never say never.
Thanks for sharing. However, no one said wrist locks never work. The guy in the video demoed a wrist lock against a knife, gun and after striking. The video was about:
marvin8 wrote:the difference between trying to apply wrist locks before a punch is retracted (almost impossible) and after against a trained fighter.
. . . The question is not if they work but, when and how?
Of course, wrist locks are more likely to work when someone grabs you (grappling distance/situations) rather than before one retracts their punch.
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:59 am
by middleway
Thanks for sharing. However, no one said wrist locks never work.
I didnt actually say anyone did ... 'never say never' is just a turn of phrase. maybe misused.
The video description is :
Can wrist locks work against an attacker outside of a controlled practice environment?
My response was ... yes ... hence the little story.
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:38 am
by marvin8
middleway wrote:
Thanks for sharing. However, no one said wrist locks never work.
I didnt actually say anyone did ... 'never say never' is just a turn of phrase. maybe misused.
You preceded the phrase with "While"—which can express an idea of opposition (though, although). So, I understood (or misunderstood) it to imply the premise of the video included wrist locks never work:
middleway wrote:While i agree with the general premise of the video ... never say never.
middleway wrote:The video description is :
Stephen Brennan wrote:Can wrist locks work against an attacker outside of a controlled practice environment?
My response was ... yes ... hence the little story.
Thanks for providing an answer and real life situation where it did work. Simultaneous wrist lock and elbow against a grab with an extended arm can be an answer.
Although not exactly the same context, wrist locks (standing and ground) have been used in jiu jitsu tournaments.
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:59 am
by wayne hansen
Over thirty years ago I taught a workmate of mine a few wrist locks Greg was a good street fighter and a top grade rugby league player He was working at a soccer club as a barman for a second job A bit of trouble broke out between some big islanders Greg walked into the middle of the squirmish took hold of two of their hands and dropped them with simultaneous wrist locks The rest dropped back and stopped fighting Order was restored When Greg told me I was shocked I told him I never would have tried that He said yeah but it worked Funny story I have told many times Sometimes shit just works as it's designed
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 7:22 pm
by Bao
wayne hansen wrote:Sometimes shit just works as it's designed
Absolutely. Shit works when you adapt to the situation.
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Mon Aug 12, 2019 9:17 pm
by windwalker
Bao wrote:
wayne hansen wrote:Sometimes shit just works as it's designed
Absolutely. Shit works when you adapt to the situation.
But generally I am not a fan of qinna techniques that require you to use both hands to control just one of the opponent's arms -- techniques that tie yourself up both physically and psychologically: "grabbing for the sake of grabbing."
Ideally, you should be able to temporarily control both of his arms with just one hand, leaving the other hand free to apply other techniques in combination, such as joint breaks, strikes, throws, or takedowns.
Re: PERSPECTIVE: Reality of Wrist Locks
Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:51 pm
by windwalker
C.J.W. wrote:Nice timing and body movement.
But generally I am not a fan of qinna techniques that require you to use both hands to control just one of the opponent's arms -- techniques that tie yourself up both physically and psychologically: "grabbing for the sake of grabbing."
Ideally, you should be able to temporarily control both of his arms with just one hand, leaving the other hand free to apply other techniques in combination, such as joint breaks, strikes, throws, or takedowns.
Thought it was a good clip illustrating usage in a live setting.
He waited, didn't want to do anything...allowed the other to present the right time,,,didn't force it...
Regarding control...IMO he controlled the others body through the limb.
The choice he had, brake , or throw.
By controlling the whole body ie short throw, the other is unable to do anything, decisively neutralized in way that prevents any type of counter.
Posted: Fri Aug 09, 2019 4:30 pm