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The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:03 am
by marvin8
Self Defense Tutorials
Published on Aug 18, 2019

The Worst Habit in Martial Arts:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OuK_KswdlUs

Re: The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:36 pm
by Steve James
When I learned, it was simple; if you don't move, you'll get hit. Imo, pain avoidance is a quick teacher.

I also think that techniques that work best against a punch always address the retraction. That's not easy, and it takes timing, the right range, and the guts to be there. Anyway, I agree that the demos showing someone executing a dozen techniques on an opponent are unrealistic.

Re: The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:12 pm
by oragami_itto
So I understand, but don't necesarrily agree with, the static pose in demonstration and instruction, does anybody actually TRAIN like that? I mean, I've never seen it. The closest I've come is one-steps where you get one each take turns moving once to attack and counter, but that's not really the same.

Re: The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:12 pm
by Bhassler
I like how he complains about the arm being held out as unrealistic, then proceeds to have his partner throw a flat-footed jab from 8" outside of range.

Re: The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:52 pm
by Bao
They apparently don’t know much about traditional training. Sometimes you need static positions to study where to apply pressure for best leverage, from what angles you can enter etc. There are details that you really need to approach from static positions, and also you need to give your partner a chance to get to know what it feels like when he does everything correct. Those guys in the clip would probably make absolutely terrible practicing partners. Maybe decent to spar with but not people you want to practice techniques or methods with in a classroom situation.

Re: The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:18 am
by GrahamB
The worst habit in martial arts is arguing about it on the internet.

Re: The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Tue Aug 27, 2019 1:29 pm
by aamc
The worst habit in martial arts is arguing about it on the internet.


Aarghh... What am I going to do now?

Re: The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 11:44 am
by Tiga Pukul
Bao wrote:They apparently don’t know much about traditional training. Sometimes you need static positions to study where to apply pressure for best leverage, from what angles you can enter etc. There are details that you really need to approach from static positions, and also you need to give your partner a chance to get to know what it feels like when he does everything correct. Those guys in the clip would probably make absolutely terrible practicing partners. Maybe decent to spar with but not people you want to practice techniques or methods with in a classroom situation.


Sure you need static positions to learn but it doesnt need years to just scale up and train on a partner that pulls back the punch.... and its a good filter for people to weed out unrealistic techniques. Sure you can still train in a static way just not with applications. There is a lot of variations possible between sparring and super static techniques.

And quite frankly i see static techniques all the time on YouTube with traditional martial arts.

Re: The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:54 pm
by marvin8
Tiga Pukul wrote:
Bao wrote:They apparently don’t know much about traditional training. Sometimes you need static positions to study where to apply pressure for best leverage, from what angles you can enter etc. There are details that you really need to approach from static positions, and also you need to give your partner a chance to get to know what it feels like when he does everything correct. Those guys in the clip would probably make absolutely terrible practicing partners. Maybe decent to spar with but not people you want to practice techniques or methods with in a classroom situation.


Sure you need static positions to learn but it doesnt need years to just scale up and train on a partner that pulls back the punch.... and its a good filter for people to weed out unrealistic techniques. Sure you can still train in a static way just not with applications. There is a lot of variations possible between sparring and super static techniques.

And quite frankly i see static techniques all the time on YouTube with traditional martial arts.

Right, that's what they said. The feed should be realistic. Not retracting punches can be used to learn a move. However, the feeder (partner) needs to eventually retract their punches. Otherwise, the other person may be training non-functional movements and developing bad habits.
Stephan Kesting (BJJ) and Burton Richardson (JKD) wrote:All the fancy stuff only works when someone holds their arm out. A real attacker isn't going to do that. . . . One person becomes a striking (or throwing) dummy for the other person to do their fancy technique. It's clearly not functional. It clearly develops bad habits. As you (Burton) point out, people ignore the second hand. They get this crazy sense that this hand stays out there. And, they can do all this stuff around it. . . . Help your partner by actually feeding them realistically. So if they ever need to use it, they're actually being prepared for it.

These issues can be applied to answering johnwang's Q&A in his thread,
Your opponent moves in, you move in too:"
johnwang wrote:Do you agree with the following Q&A?

Q: How can you wrap my punching arm if I always pull my punch back fast?
A: When you move in toward me, I'll move in toward you at the same time.

When I move into the striking range, I will stop, throw my first punch and retract it. You will block my punch, separate your arms, fail to wrap my arm, hop in and fail to head lock, leaving both my arms free. As you attempt to hop into clinch range, you will run into my second punch. Here is an example. Which movement is faster: retract a punch or block, separate your arms, arm wrap, hop into clinch range and head lock?

johnwang wrote:If my shoulder can hit on your chest, it doesn't matter how fast that you may pull your punching arm back, my arm can still wrap over (or under) your shoulder.

Your shoulder cannot hit on my chest because your two arms are extended squaring your shoulders while mine are rotating, generating power. As you block, separate your arms, arm wrap and attempt to hop into clinch range and head lock, I step back at an angle (maintain striking range and prevent from smothering my punches) luring you into emptiness, prevent your shoulder from hitting on my chest and punch your head while you are double weighted.

Punches should be retracted as in your "rhino 2" and "Striking Drills" blocking only videos.

Per the OP video, If a partner cannot block, separate their arms, hop into clinch range, arm wrap and head lock a feeder that retracts their punch, the "Rhino Guard - Head Lock - Diagonal Cut" drill should be changed for all the reasons given. "It's clearly not functional. It clearly develops bad habits."

Re: The Worst Habit in Martial Arts

PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 1:20 am
by Tiga Pukul
marvin8 wrote:
Tiga Pukul wrote:
Bao wrote:They apparently don’t know much about traditional training. Sometimes you need static positions to study where to apply pressure for best leverage, from what angles you can enter etc. There are details that you really need to approach from static positions, and also you need to give your partner a chance to get to know what it feels like when he does everything correct. Those guys in the clip would probably make absolutely terrible practicing partners. Maybe decent to spar with but not people you want to practice techniques or methods with in a classroom situation.


Sure you need static positions to learn but it doesnt need years to just scale up and train on a partner that pulls back the punch.... and its a good filter for people to weed out unrealistic techniques. Sure you can still train in a static way just not with applications. There is a lot of variations possible between sparring and super static techniques.

And quite frankly i see static techniques all the time on YouTube with traditional martial arts.

Right, that's what they said. The feed should be realistic. Not retracting punches can be used to learn a move. However, the feeder (partner) needs to eventually retract their punches. Otherwise, the other person may be training non-functional movements and developing bad habits.


Can anyone point me too some examples to a bit more realistic applications (less static) in CIMA, without watching some sparring exercises?