the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Some good stuff I have come across from HK

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... 8B8oQbVJKD

not really <<shrug>>

Can you point us to what you think is good

I quite like it. Watched the first one-and-a-half videos. Very nice connectedness/integration in his body. Apart from his head/neck, that is, which to my eye often looks a bit stiff and disconnected. I actually preferred the Liuhebafa, although my own experience of (variants of) this style have been fairly superficial. Not too sure about his leaning/swaying back in the Tai Chi form, e.g. in Grasp Sparrow's Tail. I'd have to feel what he does with that in some kind of tuishou or applications contact to understand if that works or not. In theory, of course - I guess the gentleman has passed on by now.
Thanks for posting, Wayne.

I think the leaning back stuff comes from the Yi chuan stuff he shows at the end
I don't speak any dialect of Chinese and thought there might be something in his lengthy explanations that means something to those that do

Chen Yiren and Liang Zipeng were the two major Liuhebafa lineages in Hong Kong back to 1960s. They are students of Wu Yi Hui. Other video clips of the same generation can be found on youtube are Zhang Chang Xin, Tam Siu Sang, Lu Gui-Yao, and Liang Kai Zhong. It is good to compare. Different tastes.

suckinlhbf wrote:Chen Yiren and Liang Zipeng were the two major Liuhebafa lineages in Hong Kong back to 1960s. They are students of Wu Yi Hui. Other video clips of the same generation can be found on youtube are Zhang Chang Xin, Tam Siu Sang, Lu Gui-Yao, and Liang Kai Zhong. It is good to compare. Different tastes.

Not necessarily "different tastes", but who adheres/adhered to the principles, and who does not. Regardless of line/lineage there are certain principles that must be followed if one is to "practice/train/play" properly

adheres/adhered to the principles

It has LHBF taste if it adheres to the LHBF principles, or it has other taste. They were all students of Wu but had different tastes. The generations after them have even much more varieties of tastes.

My understanding of the very basic of LHBF is its fully aligned body movements with five points. First of the six is body to heart. Body method is the first principle to grasp. I would start from looking at them as a skeleton without any flesh doing the movements, and see which parts they break.

suckinlhbf wrote:

adheres/adhered to the principles

It has LHBF taste if it adheres to the LHBF principles, or it has other taste. They were all students of Wu but had different tastes. The generations after them have even much more varieties of tastes.

My understanding of the very basic of LHBF is its fully aligned body movements with five points. First of the six is body to heart. Body method is the first principle to grasp. I would start from looking at them as a skeleton without any flesh doing the movements, and see which parts they break.

I agree, but I've rarely, if ever, seen anyone adhere to the mechanics. Including, and certainly not ending with: "One thing moves *everything* moves. One thing stops *everything* stops". The basic understanding of "closed qua". Hand, and foot together. What "open", and "closed" mean to the body, and overall movement, etc.....

I've seen too much dancing over the years.

One thing moves *everything* moves. One thing stops *everything* stops

It is still in the first of the six - body with heart. Full body alignment is almost impossible to make it perfect even with computer animation. The co-ordination of the movement is also impossible to be perfect. The mind can't be multitasking enough to make everything moves and stops exactly at the same time. It's the "heart" that could but has to find out what "heart" means. So rarely can see anybody able to do it, and would only look for who get closer. Well, correct understanding is the key, or not LHBF taste.

closed qua

It is the ridiculous part. Men's qua fused after teen. But the body requirements need the "qua" to be able to open, close, twist in, twist out, and rotate. A small click of coccyx is asked for to initiate the moves, and not a big movement of the "qua". That part has to be very flexible, and be fully controlled.

Just want to see someone adhere to the principles and not too off.

I'm not going to argue, my friend, but I'm going to end with this: You have *MUCH* to learn, and far to go if that is your understanding. I'm far from perfect, and have never claimed to be, and perhaps it's because of who my teacher is that I have a flexible heart, but an inflexible eye. Without that eye I wouldn't have been able to pinpoint your own past issues immediately. Proper mechanics are *THE* hallmark of lhbf. The chase is in the training to continue to refine those mechanics. The ultimate challenge is perfection. If there is no patience, and understanding in self reflection/correction, and diligent training then there is not lhbf. We don't train to dance, and wave our hands. We train to fight. We have lost the martial in the martial art. There is no sense of urgency, or desperation in the training. This shows. This is also why the art is almost dead, and what is being seen is an empty shell.

To train with improper understandingis to never understand. There is a simple question, with proper body mechanics, will the hand ever rise above the head? For understanding it’s not baseball, you don’t have to catch it if it poses no bodily threat.

I love it. LHBF guys are even more obtuse and "your-shit-is-fake" than taiji guys...

"Proper mechanics are *THE* hallmark of lhbf. "

I haven't practiced LHBF, but what I like very much with this art is the intricate (or maybe precise?) body mechanics. But for what I've heard there are two different versions of LHBF, one that has a bit different and more simplified mechanics?

I'm not going to argue, my friend, but I'm going to end with this: You have *MUCH* to learn, and far to go if that is your understanding

Hey, big brother, don't go away or I will lose a great mentor. You know well that I keep on practise, research, and self-examine.

On the "qua", I so happened to know a training method from LHBF that has been withheld and I was warned not to do it. But I did as I wanted to know why. I got into not only physical harm. So, if somebody:-
get a dark and dull face;
get a purple lip;
hurt their knees;
have blockage in the body;
feel less energetic after practising;
change in temper.
You may want to try open the qua instead of close.

Precise perfect body mechanic comes from perfect balance in all directions. "Everything in" gets a small sphere. "Everything out" gets a larger sphere. Drawing a big circle around the person will show how balance it is. In the old literature, "head center and up" is the first description of body requirement. Body mechanic is the basic of LHBF. It has more after that. We don't need a 100% score in grade 1 to advance to grade 2. Of course, we need to achieve the pass mark to advance. And we know more when look back.

LHBF is one of the CMA styles. I like its intricacy, preciseness, and simplicity in theories. It is the core of CMA to look for.