Six and eight

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Re: Six and eight

Postby suckinlhbf on Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:57 pm

more simplified mechanics


I think there is only a standard and universal mechanics. "內功四經" provides a good reference but I don't have the English version. PM me if the Chinese version works for you.
Last edited by suckinlhbf on Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Six and eight

Postby Strange on Tue Sep 24, 2019 5:32 pm

Brother, if you talk of neigong, i would like to share a few words from 浑元剑经 (Hun Yuan Sword Manual),
As follows:

剑者,决也,断也。必内而决七情,断凡息,内三宝得以浑化而至于纯阳,此内而剑学之筑基,内壳通而坚实也
(The meaning of the sword is to sever, to cut. It must be internally the 7 emotions are severed, and practices of the
common world are ceased, internally the Three Treasures can then be melded to Pure Yang (energy), this internal state
is to be used as a basis (of foundation building) for sword practice, where the internal shell is connected (without blockage)
and thus is strong and solid)

I also heard that for Taoist practice the ultimate practice to achieve is 三花聚顶 (3 Flowers Gathered at Top).
Others have commented that in chinese 花 and 华 (essence) come from the same root "word", and the "3"
means 精气神 (jing, qi and shen)

I think it is difficult to achieve higher levels of practice without giving up base human desires, instincts and
emotions. I think westerners put it well : " something's gotta give".

what do you think? are there some other classics that mention similar things to practitioners?
Thanks and cheers.
Last edited by Strange on Tue Sep 24, 2019 6:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: Six and eight

Postby Wanderingdragon on Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:28 am

An even simpler question, what are the rules of proper body mechanics the lead to solid unbreakable structure?
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Re: Six and eight

Postby suckinlhbf on Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:33 am

The Neigong Jin (內功四經) is an ancient martial art book with four chapters on training. It starts with saying the chi can only move with proper body structure. It describes how every body parts should be to get a proper overall structure. It goes on to explain using baqua to explain characters of every major body parts, it's inter-relationship with each others, and the inter-changing. It is a great book to read.

difficult to achieve higher levels of practice without giving up base human desires, instincts and
emotions

I chatted with a Sihung a month ago. He has learnt and researched martial arts from the age of 15 until his recent retirement, searching for for high level masters and spent lot of money on it. A master told him that the neigong training starts with focus on "the third eye", then other spots, and to Dantien. Then went on saying these are concepts, and should be dumped to get into the real training from keeping himself in emptiness, train, and wait for things to happen. I heard the same thing from various old masters before.
I read a neigong book given to me by an old master before he was gone. The book is mostly about the universe, the energy around it, to give up oneself to love and care people around, family, our own country and everything under the universe. Water can only be poured in a cup when it is empty. By the time we can empty ourselves then "something" can attach to us. What that "something" depends on how oneself be. Good person attracts good energy, and bad person gets to the dark side. So wudai is those high level old masters tried to pass on, and to the right person. I think people nowadays don't care about it too much.

LHBF trains on the same path from body to heart, to yi, to chi, to zhen, to move, and to emptiness. I don't care about the controversy and rumours on its history. It truthfully directs practitioners a path to attain certain level. It trains to fight, and most importantly to fight for good courses. Be a good person with a good heart.
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Re: Six and eight

Postby Wanderingdragon on Wed Sep 25, 2019 8:43 am

No one can move beyond the physical realm until the have completely mastered physical realty. It cannot be done without this understanding.
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Re: Six and eight

Postby Strange on Fri Sep 27, 2019 8:30 am

@suckinlhbf
Thanks for sharing
recently, i am feeling/have a feeling that we are just like parrots
copying without understanding and/or capable of the actual internal content.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: Six and eight

Postby suckinlhbf on Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:24 pm

without understanding and/or capable of the actual internal content


Brother Strange,

Honestly, I don't think I am capable of understanding and knowing martial arts. The more I practice, the more I research, the more confusing I am. Sometime I feel I know something, then a period later I feel the understanding is wrong. I tried to get answers from the resources I could find and got some sort of answers. Briefly after, I needed more answers to the answer. Always keep me in the continuous loop. Everybody has their own methods even they come from the same teachers, like Chen Yiren and Wan Tin Hung. Eventually, I gave up and leave it to fate. Practice to me is an routine without any expectation. Just walk the walk, and enjoy myself. I take whatever comes, and wait for the next. I find this path much easier. I shouldn't be teaching, and I do teach to offer options to people based on the paths I have walked through so they may find a way suited to themselves better.
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Re: Six and eight

Postby Strange on Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:33 am

Brother suckinlhbf,
thanks for your very honest post. reading what you say give me a feeling of instability.
My teacher have said that ima is not for young, immature persons, cos they cannot fully understand.
But in my humble view, at this stage/state of ima, i think that many cannot progress to next higher levels
is because there is something fundamental and foundational missing.

in its place practitioners have to grope in the dark and make up their own theories as they go along.
Always to find that in the end it is insufficient and/or does not hold true for all conditions.

To my understand, for example when one say 练精化气, one needs to cut away lust and abstain.
Then there are feelings of anger, greed, jealousy, etc...
This is just the basic to be done at the beginning... as to exactly what the next steps are,
and specifically how to perform them, i do not know.

I heard it was said that after ridding of the above, one gains a rational mind, you do not need
to search for strength and power, they will "come forward" and manifest in you....

it is as if worldly feelings make one's true potential deeply sealed and buried.
Last edited by Strange on Sat Sep 28, 2019 7:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: Six and eight

Postby lineofintent on Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:39 am

Thank you Strange and Sucklhbp, amidst all the people who are so sure they know, a deeply meaningful and important exchange revealing the importance of not knowing, emptiness, humility and never ending practice.
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Re: Six and eight

Postby Drake on Sat Oct 05, 2019 11:32 am

"Body mechanic is the basic of LHBF. It has more after that. We don't need a 100% score in grade 1 to advance to grade 2. Of course, we need to achieve the pass mark to advance. And we know more when look back." This is a perfect example of what I was "talking" about. Impatience, and the inability to self correct *because* of that impatience. In as simple terms as I can use: Physics is the science. Mechanics are the methods. Self awareness in *all* things, *every* day is the practice. You cannot run before you walk, you cannot walk before you crawl, and you cannot crawl before you roll over onto your belly. Patience, and the urgency of proper training, and proper methods. There are no shortcuts, and there is no patience once you've abandoned the foundation for the flash.
Best,

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Re: Six and eight

Postby greytowhite on Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:21 am

Strange wrote:Brother, if you talk of neigong, i would like to share a few words from 浑元剑经 (Hun Yuan Sword Manual),
As follows:

剑者,决也,断也。必内而决七情,断凡息,内三宝得以浑化而至于纯阳,此内而剑学之筑基,内壳通而坚实也
(The meaning of the sword is to sever, to cut. It must be internally the 7 emotions are severed, and practices of the
common world are ceased, internally the Three Treasures can then be melded to Pure Yang (energy), this internal state
is to be used as a basis (of foundation building) for sword practice, where the internal shell is connected (without blockage)
and thus is strong and solid)

I also heard that for Taoist practice the ultimate practice to achieve is 三花聚顶 (3 Flowers Gathered at Top).
Others have commented that in chinese 花 and 华 (essence) come from the same root "word", and the "3"
means 精气神 (jing, qi and shen)

I think it is difficult to achieve higher levels of practice without giving up base human desires, instincts and
emotions. I think westerners put it well : " something's gotta give".

what do you think? are there some other classics that mention similar things to practitioners?
Thanks and cheers.


Max Christensen has a practice labeled Maoshan 3 Flowers Rise to the Top or something like that in his little purple book. I've learned a san jiao set in the Water Dragon. In Kenny Gong's teachings that's been split into a few different pieces. It also corresponds to the 3 Roots linked below. I was taught jnana mudra for OM, shuni mudra for AH, and prithvi mudra for HNG in the Vajrasattva meditations. Each seed syllable should vibrate from their respective centers. I was also taught to pay attention to these vibrations in standing saam choy (sancai or santi). I wonder if the Sancai 3 Colors homophone is in reference to visualizing the three dantians in their respective colors as it's normally a silent practice.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Roots

Meir Shahar wrote about the intimate connection between Vajrapani as the patron deity and Shaolin temple. In my opinion, with a couple of transmissions now, is that baguazhang was intended to be an open source methodology for creating universal heruka practice to embody your deity of choice. OM AH HNG is a very simple mantra to recall and very effective in assisting one with attaining enlightenment. Adapting the practice you can substitute AH for the name of a deity of your choice. I recommend one related to Vajrapani such as Heracles, Jesus, or even Sun Wukong. Remember, this practice is for you to embody those qualities of the deity so if the deity you're working with is someone like Pan expect to be drawn to drink. If someone like Hephaestus expect physical ailments.

https://uhpress.hawaii.edu/product/the- ... tial-arts/
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Re: Six and eight

Postby Wanderingdragon on Sun Oct 06, 2019 9:26 am

I can only say, all things esoteric are as speaking and following blindly, if one has not mastered the understanding of the mundane.
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Re: Six and eight

Postby Strange on Sun Oct 06, 2019 8:38 pm

Brother WD,
understand your valid concern.
for your consideration, let me try to put it this way
we all know that we can make fire by flint and steel (method),
but many people now cannot get fire
i think it is possible that we have not gather tinder/dry moss (cut away desires to gather jing)
so one can strike the flint and steel for a long time and do not make fire.

this is the practical way i see it
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: Six and eight

Postby Overlord on Mon Oct 07, 2019 5:48 am

suckinlhbf wrote:Chen Yiren and Liang Zipeng were the two major Liuhebafa lineages in Hong Kong back to 1960s. They are students of Wu Yi Hui. Other video clips of the same generation can be found on youtube are Zhang Chang Xin, Tam Siu Sang, Lu Gui-Yao, and Liang Kai Zhong. It is good to compare. Different tastes.


Love Chen Yiren form, it just felt better refined and compact.
Although some of others may have slightly better kicks, but his form is impeccable or impenetrable!
While each of his move is graceful, but I feel each his stroke can parry all my attack with ease.
I don’t sense the same with others. Zhang Changxing is great but I felt more Xingyi power based.

Internal 4 classic have a very different understanding. Again Xingyi power is not the same as LHBF.
-saber-


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Re: Six and eight

Postby suckinlhbf on Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:09 am

Love Chen Yiren form, it just felt better refined and compact.
Although some of others may have slightly better kicks, but his form is impeccable or impenetrable!
While each of his move is graceful, but I feel each his stroke can parry all my attack with ease.
I don’t sense the same with others. Zhang Changxing is great but I felt more Xingyi power based.


From the people I have talked to, the best part of Wu Yi Hui is Hua (化) Jin. It would be the LHBF taste of Wu, and the measurement on how close to him his students and later generations are.
Somebody asked me before that would it be possible Chen Yiren's form is fake or he was hiding something. I told him he was not at the level to see what Chen had been doing.

练精化气

When most of the 精 are being 化. the practitioner would have no sexual desire. Serious decision may have to be made whether want to go for this path.
Last edited by suckinlhbf on Mon Oct 07, 2019 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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