Xu approves

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Xu approves

Postby dspyrido on Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:17 am


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcLPSNEzHbs

I guess that's Xu. No idea what he is saying but they seem to be buddies.
Last edited by dspyrido on Sun Nov 24, 2019 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Nov 24, 2019 11:42 am

Don't know what that's all about but he's pulling those punches
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Xu approves

Postby Frank Bellemare on Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:31 pm

Others with better chinese may want to add details, but here's the gist :

This fellow, Zhao Xiaolong, is a golden bell and iron shirt practitioner. Xu says he saw him in a video and thinks it's fake. He says he's never encountered this before.

Xu then says he'll use his "real stuff" to test it out, and says to Zhao "if you get hurt, don't come after me, alright?", to which Zhao answers something like "If you don't use full force, it's not worth my time".

Xu then punches Zhao to the belly with a hook, then a straight. Zhao says "nice punches". And that's pretty much it.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby windwalker on Sun Nov 24, 2019 6:50 pm

golden bell, iron shirt

is it the same


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ElkAvXcSQ

one might ask is it a healthy practice for ones body in the long run...
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Re: Xu approves

Postby Overlord on Sun Nov 24, 2019 7:15 pm

windwalker wrote:golden bell, iron shirt

is it the same


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0_ElkAvXcSQ

one might ask is it a healthy practice for ones body in the long run...



Very different.
With the medicine ball if you add rotation into it, iron shirt then become useless in my humble opinion.
The demo btw Xu and Zhao is funny to watch, with or without English translation~ ;D
Cheers
Last edited by Overlord on Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby Formosa Neijia on Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:30 pm

windwalker wrote:golden bell, iron shirt
is it the same
...
one might ask is it a healthy practice for ones body in the long run...


It's extremely healthy if done correctly and not to excess. The training specifically moves the viscera and organs around in ways not commonly found. You have to have very high levels of health in order to take strikes to the midsection because any weakness of the organs will result in deteriorating long-term health or immediate injury.

Overlord wrote:Very different.
With the medicine ball if you add rotation into it. Iron shirt is useless in my humble opinion.

The principles and practice are similar in many ways. The idea is to better withstand strikes so obviously they will share many similarities.

As for it being useless, iron shirt training is more valuable than any form from any style and would quickly lead to much higher power levels for nearly everything you do. It's a better use of your time than 99% of the other stuff people practice. But to each their own.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby Overlord on Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:49 pm

Hi Neija
Sorry for not making myself clear when auto correct change my sentence ~

What I am saying is when medicine ball pounds on the body shield with rotational force, it is unlikely this shield will work.
And there are other ways to diffuse iron shield as well. But body shield does have its value. Diffuse shield is usually in another level of internal arts.

This Xu’s video is simply a joke, I cannot be bother to watch his clip for a long time.
I suspect he may had paid those grandpas to get beat up to show his ego and publicity, at least some of them.
This body shield clip further proves my suspicion.

Over
Last edited by Overlord on Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby windwalker on Sun Nov 24, 2019 9:59 pm

It's extremely healthy if done correctly and not to excess. The training specifically moves the viscera and organs around in ways not commonly found. You have to have very high levels of health in order to take strikes to the midsection because any weakness of the organs will result in deteriorating long-term health or immediate injury.


With out any studies documenting this, it would be hard to say how true this is.
What ways are uncommon?

on the other hand

Medicine balls are also used to improve the punch resistance of a boxer’s abdomen. This is done by dropping the ball onto the abdomen of the boxer, simulating a punch coming from an opponent. Other athletes use medicine balls to increase their core strength.

One common activity is to have athletes hold the ball against their chest and thrust it at another athlete, who catches it against their chest. This strengthens arm, chest, and leg muscles.

http://www.westcountryboxing.com/medici ... for-boxing

this type of training is well documented by those who depend on and benefit directly from the results.

The principles and practice are similar in many ways. The idea is to better withstand strikes so obviously they will share many similarities.


My indirect point was that much like the "internal punch" thread it might be better to look at examples of what the training really does and advantages it has over other methods...

I do know from first hand experience for example with specialty hands like what is called burning palm any area hit will not be usable.

The training itself along with cutting hand /arm was quite hard on the body, the only benefit gained was noted though sparring, or developing something that
hopefully would not be used...

Otherwise never felt the training itself as very sustainable, or good for the body...

as was mentioned " to each their own"
Last edited by windwalker on Sun Nov 24, 2019 10:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby C.J.W. on Mon Nov 25, 2019 12:46 am

IMO, not all golden bell/iron shirt methods are created equal.

Some of the hardcore methods I've seen in southern styles develop the ability to take hard hits fairly quickly (within months) through various dynamic tension and compressed breathing exercises, but require the use of special herbal medicines -- both topical and oral -- in order to rectify the internal and external damages that accumulate during training. Having said that, when over-trained, they can still lead to an array of health problems in the long run, especially hypertension and stroke.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby Overlord on Mon Nov 25, 2019 3:58 am

C.J.W. wrote:IMO, not all golden bell/iron shirt methods are created equal.

Some of the hardcore methods I've seen in southern styles develop the ability to take hard hits fairly quickly (within months) through various dynamic tension and compressed breathing exercises, but require the use of special herbal medicines -- both topical and oral -- in order to rectify the internal and external damages that accumulate during training. Having said that, when over-trained, they can still lead to an array of health problems in the long run, especially hypertension and stroke.


Yes CJW, you are absolutely correct.
Another school I know feel like soft clay when punch yet hard to penetrate with speed.
AFAIK old school hard Qigong teachers usually take chocolate to reduce blood pressure and reduce risks of stroke.
However I am not sure how accurate this info is...
Much thanks for sharing your insight.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby Formosa Neijia on Mon Nov 25, 2019 9:15 pm

Iron vest methods vary but there are two broad camps: those who do tension forms and those who do exercise sets. Most of the problems with high blood pressure are likely due to the tension forms being over-trained and the lifestyles of those doing the training, not the practice itself. One guy with a healthy non-smoking, non-drinking lifestyle doing the forms is going to have a very different outcome from someone who drinks and smokes like a fish (a high number of traditional teachers IME).

Having said that, some breathing patterns will elevate blood pressure if only temporarily although I'm not sure of the effect of consistently training that way. I love tension forms but some of what I see takes it too far even for me. Packing for sure has issues if over-done but that's just one method.

The exercise sets very rarely contribute to high blood pressure and many of the exercises don't use isometric tension in the same way as the tension forms. In fact, some of the iron vest training I've done will LOWER high blood pressure, especially if the teacher brings an endurance element to the training. What I mean by that is some teachers know that taking one or two blows isn't enough, you need the endurance to take shots for 3-5:00 rounds and you need to learn to turn it on and off to conserve energy. this type of training is obviously more useful for sport fighting but it's still traditional although not as common.

Some people take herbs but IME they aren't necessary if you don't bang the hell out of yourself, which you should never do anyway. A high protein intake and proper nutrition will aid recovery but some general health chinese herbs do come in handy. I have taken two herbal formulas for iron vest and they both ripped my stomach apart. Be extremely careful with those forumlas.

Finally properly done iron vest is great for building robust health and is primarily about building martial power. The ability to withstand blows is actually just a by-product of the training.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 26, 2019 11:51 am

Image

Interesting article in line with some of the views expressed.

It can be said that in addition to Tai Chi, walking and other fitness methods, the uncles and aunts have also invented many unique methods, but is it really good for your health to hit a tree or use a lion? Hurt.

https://www.toutiao.com/a6762412286310089230/

Bascily outlines knowing what one is doing, why and the need.
Many practices used for fighting, and for those competing are not really healthy
in the long run....

I've known some teachers understanding this no longer feel the need to teach them....
Doesn't mean that for those who feel a need to acquire them can not..
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Re: Xu approves

Postby dspyrido on Tue Nov 26, 2019 5:46 pm

windwalker wrote:
It can be said that in addition to Tai Chi, walking and other fitness methods, the uncles and aunts have also invented many unique methods, but is it really good for your health to hit a tree or use a lion? Hurt.



Context, context context.

70 year old wants to take up peda+martial arts & has done nothing all their lives. Ouch & lets face it their bones will snap like twigs if they misstep. So they just walk around & do Tai Chi (does it bother anyone that Tai Chi is being dismissed here as a martial art?)

18 year old wants to take up peda+martial arts & they do it carefully until they are 70. Bones are conditioned, tendons are still strong (Wolffs law). Not really much fear of misstepping as they are not weak.

There's a window for training solidly & sensibly and it does not start at the end point of life.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:39 pm

(does it bother anyone that Tai Chi is being dismissed here as a martial art?)


should it?

The same could be said of CMA,,,.


The conditioning needed or done to step into a ring, or make an art street functional
can be quite severe. Chinese styles as most fighting styles are designed with the goal of producing
people who can use the style by attrition, just like training in the US military for its specialty teams.

The training itself tends to weed out those who can not meet the requirements or really dont understand what
it entails.

This is not the case in taiji where its "promoted" as something that all can do and benefit from.
Or its taught as some type of therapy or health exercise.....

Understanding this but not agreeing with it, it doesn't bother me...

Everyone is different.


Posted the article to show that people need to understand the why, how and
what of their training.

Many of the older masters I've met are quite strong in all ways
their training was very bitter in their youth....the conditions and time needed
for such training is really only needed by a very few....in todays time
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Nov 26, 2019 6:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Xu approves

Postby dspyrido on Tue Nov 26, 2019 8:07 pm

windwalker wrote:
(does it bother anyone that Tai Chi is being dismissed here as a martial art?)


should it?

The same could be said of CMA,,,.

----
This is not the case in taiji where its "promoted" as something that all can do and benefit from.
Or its taught as some type of therapy or health exercise.....


It should & the same can't be said for CMA which is by definition is a family of martial arts.

People getting together to only wave their hands in a park because they are afraid to make any real contact are only going to be capable of swatting flies. This limited view of TC should not be classed as a martial art and it's sad that the name tai chi of the 99.9% and tai chi chuan of the 0.1% seem to be so easily mixed up.

It's like getting the stretching part of kickboxing/long fist or whatever & then discarding the rest of the training methods because they are too hard or supposedly not good for health.

Frankly the most unhealthy part is claiming to be a false master and getting cleaned up by a so so fighter. Mentally self delusion is not very healthy.
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