Overlord wrote:According to Hong’s late students, Hong Yixiang was both (heavy) powerful and sneaky.
He had three stages of students, I think Su and Luo Dexiu was the second stage.
C.J.W. wrote:I would say the WC guy actually did a decent job neutralizing Su's entries and preventing him from executing techniques smoothly -- to the point where Su would often have to go to his "dummy" student in order to complete the moves he wanted to demonstrate.
With Su's track record, there's no doubt he's a great fighter. However, I've always felt that his modified XY/BG/TJ method relies too much on shoufa (hand methods), hand speed, and transitions to gain entry. So when dealing with someone who is also good at the those things, like the WC guy, he is likely to run into some trouble.
Against someone with fast hands, my solution is usually to by-pass or nullify the arms by attacking the body and taking away the opponent's balance with heavy XY strikes -- and BG footwork.
Overlord wrote:I met big Hong Tiger, the brothers and other Hong’s student personally, they told me loads of things.
And there are things that I can say or not say on the table.
Hong Yixiang’s legacy and homage in martial arts is not given the credit in full. Let’s just say.
Formosa Neijia wrote:Is that a joke? Su was here for years before he left to go back to Japan. You could have tried your theories any time. I for one would have loved to see video of that.
WC does all of its techniques in a box in front of the chest. So when Su sets up some of those types of attacks, the WC guy can neutralize some of them but as soon as Su angles, the WC guy has no answer. And in somce cases, Su WANTS those neutralizations because they are entries. He's obviously using the student to elaborate his ideas for demonstration purposes. Did we see the same clip?
As for him not being as heavy as Hong, don't they obviously have different body types? At a certain point, you have to stop imitating and find what works for you,which Su has obviously done in spades.
Regarding the idea that Hong's material preserves things the mainland lost, I've always found all of the groups derived from Hong's teachings are showing apps that I never see from the mainland. The slapping,for example, is something they do very well and I don't see that in mainland apps. I always attributed that to Hong's southern shaolin, especially his white crane. In any case, Hong's material as found in the various groups seems very special to me and I wouldn't trade it for anything I've ever seen from the mainland.
Formosa Neijia wrote:
Regarding the idea that Hong's material preserves things the mainland lost, I've always found all of the groups derived from Hong's teachings are showing apps that I never see from the mainland. The slapping,for example, is something they do very well and I don't see that in mainland apps. I always attributed that to Hong's southern shaolin, especially his white crane. In any case, Hong's material as found in the various groups seems very special to me and I wouldn't trade it for anything I've ever seen from the mainland.
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dspyrido wrote:Overlord wrote:According to Hong’s late students, Hong Yixiang was both (heavy) powerful and sneaky.
He had three stages of students, I think Su and Luo Dexiu was the second stage.
What was their description of the 3 stages?
Trick wrote:Formosa Neijia wrote:
Regarding the idea that Hong's material preserves things the mainland lost, I've always found all of the groups derived from Hong's teachings are showing apps that I never see from the mainland. The slapping,for example, is something they do very well and I don't see that in mainland apps. I always attributed that to Hong's southern shaolin, especially his white crane. In any case, Hong's material as found in the various groups seems very special to me and I wouldn't trade it for anything I've ever seen from the mainland.
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Yes, you say it yourself here. Hong’s “XYQ” slapping is from some of the many other styles of pugilism he was involved in.
As for myself, if I focus heavily on my Taijiquan practice openhands seem to come out more naturally. But also as now as I have focused much on my XYQ Chicken form, openhandeness is flashing.....Maybe that’s what’s Hong also focused on(chicken form)? Or maybe some of the other open hand XYQ shapes...I can agree that fist techniques may be favored by many average XYQ practitioners who has fallen for the GYS bengquan story. Although some stylist have a focus on fists because extensive practice of the horse shape...(remember here the fist is everything from elbow to knuckles)
As for my XYQ teacher here is China, he’s balanced fist/palms (BGZ, TJQ and XYQ with western boxing)
Formosa Neijia wrote:Overlord,
Sorry to see you deleted your response. I understand that there is an amount of politics involved between all these teachers that is hard to appreciate sometimes.
We very well could have met at some point.
I look forward to the translation if it ever becomes available.
Trick wrote:dspyrido wrote:Overlord wrote:According to Hong’s late students, Hong Yixiang was both (heavy) powerful and sneaky.
He had three stages of students, I think Su and Luo Dexiu was the second stage.
What was their description of the 3 stages?
From that quote I think two of the stages are kind of explained
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