the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Oh man... I respect you, I don't know how you kept a straight-face..

I'm so happy that making love to a tree was never part of the curriculum. Just hitting it.

Li moves great for an 80 year old. Student is still working through that awkward stage. Takes years and lots of practise to get past it.

yeah, must take years of training to keep a straight face in front of pole molestation

Obviously the pole work looks weird but at the end of the day it is training the dragon body, which as far as I understand is one of the core requirements of XYLH.

Think people are getting fixated on the 'weird looking' pole drill and missing the gold where Li talks about the internal mechanics underlying Yi and Ha sounds of XYLH - AFAIK this is v rarely discussed on public videos, props to Will for getting him to talk about it on camera

nicklinjm wrote:Obviously the pole work looks weird but at the end of the day it is training the dragon body, which as far as I understand is one of the core requirements of XYLH.

Think people are getting fixated on the 'weird looking' pole drill and missing the gold where Li talks about the internal mechanics underlying Yi and Ha sounds of XYLH - AFAIK this is v rarely discussed on public videos, props to Will for getting him to talk about it on camera

It's nice to see videos of a rare style and to hear the opinions of those who've trained in it but I can't say it's that profound.

The beauty of XYLH is not about the theory but in the practise and the practise all starts with the forms (better term should be training sequences). Knowing how to sound out which is really only done to signal the end of a sequence is not as important as repeating the motion 1000s of times. Sure pursuing the "sound of thunder" might lead to impressive results or could go nowhere but that's a different topic.

Also the pole stuff might have it's use to help people get past that awkward stiff starting point we all have to go through but in the end it's all in the forms.

That said - it's great to see videos on XYLH and other styles. It's also nice that these are provided freely. There are good bits in it but deep down XYLH can't be learnt with theory.

Obviously the pole work looks weird but at the end of the day it is training the dragon body, which as far as I understand is one of the core requirements of XYLH.

I just thought the whole sequence was pretty funny, first Tobias is there fondling the pole, before Li Jun Hua grabs his butt and talks about moving the kua. I couldn't keep a straight-face...

Regarding the pole exercise, I learned a variation of it from an instructor under Kenny Gong. It wasn't taught with a pole rather you make the circle in the air in front of your torso, palms facing each other as if your holding an escrima stick between them.
I think it's quite effective at loosening up and connecting the torso.

dspyrido wrote:

nicklinjm wrote:Obviously the pole work looks weird but at the end of the day it is training the dragon body, which as far as I understand is one of the core requirements of XYLH.

Think people are getting fixated on the 'weird looking' pole drill and missing the gold where Li talks about the internal mechanics underlying Yi and Ha sounds of XYLH - AFAIK this is v rarely discussed on public videos, props to Will for getting him to talk about it on camera :)

It's nice to see videos of a rare style and to hear the opinions of those who've trained in it but I can't say it's that profound.

The beauty of XYLH is not about the theory but in the practise and the practise all starts with the forms (better term should be training sequences). Knowing how to sound out which is really only done to signal the end of a sequence is not as important as repeating the motion 1000s of times. Sure pursuing the "sound of thunder" might lead to impressive results or could go nowhere but that's a different topic.

Also the pole stuff might have it's use to help people get past that awkward stiff starting point we all have to go through but in the end it's all in the forms.

That said - it's great to see videos on XYLH and other styles. It's also nice that these are provided freely. There are good bits in it but deep down XYLH can't be learnt with theory.

It may not be especially profound in a conceptual sense, but if it works reliably, it is profound. You say it's all in the forms, and no doubt it should be, but how many people do we see running around doing empty forms with useless or no shenfa? Simple repetition doesn't get it. Just because you yourself got it through talent or teaching or tenacity doesn't mean other people will. It's common around here to hear the refrain that 1 in 100 people will "get it" in terms of IMA. So if this guy's pole exercises get him to where even 5 in 100 students "get it", then I'd say that makes it pretty fucking profound, by comparison. Hopefully the student in the video sticks with it, gets good, and becomes a Youtube superstar in his own right.

I think this whole kung fu thing is pretty cool, but it's hard to find really good examples of it, so I'm always rooting for the next person who can get the goods that only come through hard work and go public.

aamc wrote:

Obviously the pole work looks weird but at the end of the day it is training the dragon body, which as far as I understand is one of the core requirements of XYLH.

I just thought the whole sequence was pretty funny, first Tobias is there fondling the pole, before Li Jun Hua grabs his butt and talks about moving the kua. I couldn't keep a straight-face...

It's just a cultural thing. Asian people don't have the same boundaries of personal space we do. It's pretty common for a teacher to just grab your butt and adjust you like that. On a similar note, a lot of people commented it was bad taste when Tang Sheng Jun pushed Jon over the bench in our Hebei Xingyi episode. That's also pretty normal in China... Ive lost count of the times I've been shoved, punched and kicked by people when explaining stuff.

When we were filming, as he started to do the pole thing I was already predicting the comments.... the first time we met he spent about two hours talking about the mechanics in Ji Bu, which is what I wanted him to repeat for the camera, but he spent so long talking about the pole thing, by the time I got to asking him about Ji Bu again he ran out of steam.

Anyway, just wanna say thanks for the feedback guys!

My purpose with making these videos is to show TCMA as its practiced in China "warts and all" without the hype, mysticism and putting people on pedastals that you see a lot of.

chenyaolong wrote:Anyway, just wanna say thanks for the feedback guys!

My purpose with making these videos is to show TCMA as its practiced in China "warts and all" without the hype, mysticism and putting people on pedastals that you see a lot of.

Thanks for posting these-- really looking forward to the Fujian series. I was going to say I hoped you would continue posting more of your own Mantis practice as well, but lo and behold, looks like you posted one just a couple of days ago. Please do keep up the good work!

Bhassler wrote:Thanks for posting these-- really looking forward to the Fujian series. I was going to say I hoped you would continue posting more of your own Mantis practice as well, but lo and behold, looks like you posted one just a couple of days ago. Please do keep up the good work!

I'd like to do a whole Mantis series too, but it's difficult with the politics. It was easier to do series on styles that aren't my own. Next time I head up to Yantai I will film some more stuff with my teacher though, and I am planning to film some more stuff myself too.

The dragon coils around tree exercise shown in the video is quite common in many Taiji/Xingyi/Bagua lineages, and usually referred to as "rubbing the ball" (no pun intended) or "fixed-step cloud hand." But it's usually done either empty-handed or with a ball as opposed to a pole. (I've seen people do it with basketballs, medicine balls, even bowling balls.)

Bhassler wrote:It may not be especially profound in a conceptual sense, but if it works reliably, it is profound. You say it's all in the forms, and no doubt it should be, but how many people do we see running around doing empty forms with useless or no shenfa? Simple repetition doesn't get it. Just because you yourself got it through talent or teaching or tenacity doesn't mean other people will. It's common around here to hear the refrain that 1 in 100 people will "get it" in terms of IMA. So if this guy's pole exercises get him to where even 5 in 100 students "get it", then I'd say that makes it pretty fucking profound, by comparison. Hopefully the student in the video sticks with it, gets good, and becomes a Youtube superstar in his own right.

I think this whole kung fu thing is pretty cool, but it's hard to find really good examples of it, so I'm always rooting for the next person who can get the goods that only come through hard work and go public.

You're right. I can't fault the logic that if this helps take the numbers from 1 in 100 to 1 in 20 it is profound.

Unfortunately the only practical flaw is based on what was passed down and what I've seen.

There are many basics & training them alone doesn't get results. There's hundreds of refinements that over the years I've learnt. Some I was instructed on, some I picked up along the way from observing others, some I saw in myself. Many I'm still learning and I'm yet to get.

In the end though after asking countless questions myself on application & theory did I realise the wisdom of my departed sifu words .... "practise more".

That said I hope these help others find a path more efficiently but even in sports combat it is recognised that you can't breed a race horse from a donkey. Perhaps getting "it" in these arts is 1 in 100 and it's hardwired. I hope not.