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INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:11 am
by littlepanda

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:10 pm
by Tom
It's helpful if the original poster puts the video clip offered in some context and offers comments or questions for forum members to respond to.

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:23 pm
by littlepanda
In this video Scott meredith says yiquan was originally all about "internal energy" i.e. qi and other non-physical energy but because of cultural revolution Wang xiangzhai had to delete references to qi and other stuff. so todays yiquan practitioners no longer cultivate internal energy.

In this video Scott shows one yiquan exercise, friction-step for developing internal energy.

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:33 pm
by Tom
Thanks.

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:09 pm
by everything
That seems very plausible.

Get rid of ancient TCM things. Modernize. Ugh.

Next they’ll only talk fascia and keto

Except those translations from Andrezj mention energy plenty of times

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:12 am
by Overlord
Love the passage! It’s a gem!
Thank you!

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 7:10 am
by GrahamB
"Make Yi Quan internal again" :)

Good points about the political machinations of the republicans and then the communists from Scott.

What's with the sunglasses?

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:36 am
by windwalker
littlepanda wrote:In this video Scott meredith says yiquan was originally all about "internal energy" i.e. qi and other non-physical energy but because of cultural revolution Wang xiangzhai had to delete references to qi and other stuff. so todays yiquan practitioners no longer cultivate internal energy.

In this video Scott shows one yiquan exercise, friction-step for developing internal energy.


In the clip Scott does not show show or validate that "friction-step" can or does develop "internal energy

why something might not be taught or focused on directly might be those teaching felt by focusing on this it would tend to lead the students in the wrong direction.



A: [Wang Xiangzhai’s disciple, now deceased] Ao Shi-peng once told me an anecdote that took place while China was in the thrall of ‘Qigong mania’ [in the 80s]. Ao asked M Yao about the ‘fa gong’ [external release of qi], and asked whether Yiquan could produce this kind of ability too. At first, M Yao was reluctant to talk about this kind of thing, but eventually, seeing that Ao wasn’t going to drop it, sighed and raised his hand. Bear in mind that Ao and M Yao were separated by a dining table at this point.

M Yao lifted his hand and made a very small fa li motion towards Ao’s face. Ao felt as if a large mass of paper had hit his forehead, it scared him witless. Have you ever come across this ability?

C: M Yao was always reluctant to talk about this kind of thing, even in his books he denied it existed in Yiquan. His intent was not to lead Yiquan students astray. Actually, the practice of Yiquan can develop this ability. M Yao told me about it in 1978. That year, in order to study Yiquan with M Yao, I took sick leave dozens of times. I gave up a lot of other things to practice Yiquan.

https://wulinmingshi.wordpress.com/2009 ... n-part-iv/

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 8:47 am
by windwalker
A: What exactly are the details he was talking about?
C: The details he was referring to were feints and ‘tells’ – both with the hands and feet, and mentally too. Of course, there’s also shen guang long zhao (‘enveloping aura’?). When you have these elements at your command things get more detailed, richer and fuller. M Yao taught me how to spar under different circumstances: what to do when you’ve got a lot of room, when you’re cramped, when your opponent comes at you full throttle, or how to force him to make a move if he hangs back. Before 1981, M Yao pushed and sparred with me a lot.

After 1981, every so often, he would push or spar with me, then explain what was going on inside. There was a period when, in order to train my footwork, shenfa and ability to spot attacking opportunities, M Yao decreed that, in sparring, I was only allowed to launch 3 punches in each 3-minute round.

A: When M Yao pushed and sparred with you, were you really trying to beat him?
C: Yes. As soon as I detected an opportunity, I would fa li, hoping to launch the old guy for once (chuckles). The folly of youth, I guess. As I launched my attack, M Yao would contract, leading me to feel as if I had crushed something really heavy. The moment I had this feeling, it was replaced by a feeling of that ‘thing’ having been blown away by the wind.

https://wulinmingshi.wordpress.com/2009 ... n-part-iv/

good read outlines the differences noted in another thread between external and internal practices..

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:01 am
by Bhassler
everything wrote:That seems very plausible.

Get rid of ancient TCM things. Modernize. Ugh.

Next they’ll only talk fascia and keto

Except those translations from Andrezj mention energy plenty of times


My understanding is that the term "internal" itself was more of a political term created during the Manchu invasion to distinguish Han arts from those that were considered "external" to the Han dynasty. The grouping of Xingyi, Bagua, and Taiji as "internal" arts within the same family was popularized much later by Sun Lu Tang, who, at the end of the day, was just a guy who was pretty good at some stuff and had money and an education and could get a book published.

The point being that the whole concept of IMA is relatively recent and more the result of what amounts to the social media of the day rather than anything real or intrinsic to what people actually practice. Much of what's popularly considered ancient is not.

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 9:49 am
by everything
Waaat

Cultivation arts having nothing to do with MA have nothing to do with that more modern history or politics... shrug

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:42 am
by Bao
"because of cultural revolution Wang xiangzhai had to delete references to qi and other stuff. so todays yiquan practitioners no longer cultivate internal energy."


This statement doesn't make sense.

1) Practice is one thing, words are another. Practice is doing, not talking. Practice doesn't become internal or external because of if you speak about this or that.

2) Qi does not automatically specify something "Internal" or mystical. Only in our western ears we make that connection. "Qi" is a common character and used in everyday language in many different ways.

The point being that the whole concept of IMA is relatively recent


The original name is modernised and used in a different way. IMO, names are unimportant. But it's wrong to diminish the practice because of changes in language. The principles and practice of IMA are derived from old Shaolin practice, older than any form of modern IMA. Maybe better to get rid of the name "IMA" and instead speak about neigong, internal practice. Then everyone can more easily see what styles, schools and lineages that focus more on neigong...

..."Oh, arts known as "IMA" focus more on Neigong than arts known as EMA? What a coincidence, I would have suspected that!" :o :o :o

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:06 am
by Trick
littlepanda wrote:In this video Scott meredith says yiquan was originally all about "internal energy" i.e. qi and other non-physical energy but because of cultural revolution Wang xiangzhai had to delete references to qi and other stuff. so todays yiquan practitioners no longer cultivate internal energy.

In this video Scott shows one yiquan exercise, friction-step for developing internal energy.

In 1956 he was the first and only one in Beijing to establish a Qigong hospital.
This symposium ordered by the Chinese government had the goal of “revealing all secrets” and making them available to the people. At that time the newly communist China has slightly shifted its attitude from ‘banning the old’ to ‘using the old knowledge to benefit the people’.
http://hunyuaninstitute.com/huandhunyuan.pdf So It would rather seem to have been as that the ‘old’ways(“Qigong”) before the Communist took power where not for everyone, that it was an secretive practice just for a chosen few in the past. And therefore a lot of fantasies, speculations and delusional beliefs came around, and also unscrupulous teachers with no true knowledge.
All such untrue ways stoped with Chairman Mao.... And because of this you all now can travel to China to learn the true ways, also Scott Meredith 8-)

But however Meredith mention the cultural revolution as an force that tried to erase the Qi from China, and that ‘revolution’ occurred between 1966-1976, and Wang Xiangzhai passed away in 1964. So Meredith’s claim that Wang had to hide anything of substance is not true.

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:55 am
by GrahamB
The process of "erasing the Qi from China", if that's what you want to call it, happened way before the Cultural Revolution. The Cultural Revolution was perhaps its most violent peak. The Communists were in power way before that, but you can trace the roots of this idea back to the Nationalists before that with the formation of GouShou. Basically, the Boxer Rebellion (1899-1901) set the whole thing in motion.

This is a very simplistic outline, missing incredible amounts of detail, but I think that's basically it.

Re: INTERNAL Friction stepping - Scott meredith

PostPosted: Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:00 am
by GrahamB
Image

Image

Boxer Rebellion.