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Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:28 am
by lineofintent
Flying Monk Ep 33


Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Fri Feb 07, 2020 5:49 pm
by Tom
It’s nice to see Li Baohua get some fresh exposure here. Alex does a good job allowing Li laoshi space to convey his passion for baguazhang while appropriately prompting with specific questions to lead the discussion. Li laoshi is a warm, passionate and personable man with a big heart who has devoted decades to the training and research of Ma Gui baguazhang. Li has some very interesting information about the history of baguazhang that comes through in this interview (Part 1 of several).

Based on personal experience, I can say that Li is a highly skilled martial artist and teacher who will be sharing valuable insights with the help of Alex, himself a real jewel in the world of internal arts.

Xie xie, Alex.

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 1:50 pm
by Bao
Thanks for the tip and for doing it. I get a sense that this gent must be a very kind and generous teacher. Looking forward to the second part.

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Sun Feb 09, 2020 5:38 pm
by Tom
According to the late Pakua Chang Journal (respect to Dan, Tim and Vince), Dong Hai Chuan had a picture of Damo (remember, no selfies or Instagram back then). when he took disciples within the Qing Imperial Palace. According to Fan Zhiyong’s family, he also had a picture of Gui Guzi. Look up Gui .... the 36 and 48 verses in terms of strategy (not technique) begin to make sense. I think Li Baohua will have something to say about this (unless Alex got distracted .... ALEX?).

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:20 am
by lineofintent
Thanks for the kind words Tom )

Yes all these topics and people you mention are coming up in the next episodes, Li really covers a lot of ground.

Putting aside modern revisionists who would debunk anything older than 200 years old as pure myth (whatever that means.....one only has to reference the recent HK academic book debacle to see an example) we can start to listen, really pay attention, to the great wisdom contained in the oral teachings of the old lineages.

Li is basically saying that Damo's teachings of transformation of body/mind underly all original Baguaquan , and once informed most Chinese martial arts, but the deep teachings have been mostly lost leaving a shell of simple exercise sets.

Will post more very soon....thanks to Li Baohua for sharing so much, and to everyone for watching our channel. And to Tom, who is also a jewel, his body honed through long practice into something resembling a whiskey bottle...

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Mon Feb 10, 2020 4:45 am
by Tom
Up at 3:30 a.m. for practice means more like the shards of a bottle. ;) A round bowl, now that's a nice shape, steeping the unfurling tea leaves before 坐忘 .

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:50 pm
by Overlord
I thought Tom you are not into mystical thingy....

I will add a little bit more info on what Li laoshi told me:
1, Bagua is also a by product of Tendon changing manual (Yijinjing) which came from Damo
2, Bagua used Guiguzi to guide it’s strategy and health cultivation.

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:38 pm
by Tom
Overlord wrote:[snip]

I will add a little bit more info on what Li laoshi told me:
1, Bagua is also a by product of Tendon changing manual (Yijinjing) which came from Damo.[snip]


This is (to me) very interesting. Li was the first person to impress upon me the idea that the Yijinjing is perhaps more a set of principles for movement and intent than a set of specific exercises. I've since found that perspective in some xingyiquan teaching I've been given. Having said that, someone with great breadth of perspective and depth of training describes specific exercises coming through Ch'an and Zen teaching lines that seem to be consistent with coming from a common source. In the case of that school of Buddhism, the source traditionally attributed would be Damo (Bodhidharma).

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:10 am
by Bao
Having said that, someone with great breadth of perspective and depth of training describes specific exercises coming through Ch'an and Zen teaching lines that seem to be consistent with coming from a common source. In the case of that school of Buddhism, the source traditionally attributed would be Damo (Bodhidharma).


Maybe it would be better to say Chan and Daoism. In the Song and Ming dynasties the practices of Buddhist meditation and Daoist neidan were really mixed up. In the Ming dynast mixed versions of practices, both Buddhist and Daoist, were spread all over China. If the origin of Yijinjing is old (which I at least partly doubt) then the origin should be found in one of these periods. In the time of Damo, there were Indian meditation and Daoist Daoyin, but Buddhism and Taoism and their disciplines were kept very much separated. The Yijinjing type of practice clearly has a much more Chinese and Daoist origin than Buddhist.

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:49 am
by Bob
A+++ for Bao

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Thu Mar 12, 2020 9:10 am
by Tom
Bao wrote:
Having said that, someone with great breadth of perspective and depth of training describes specific exercises coming through Ch'an and Zen teaching lines that seem to be consistent with coming from a common source. In the case of that school of Buddhism, the source traditionally attributed would be Damo (Bodhidharma).


Maybe it would be better to say Chan and Daoism. In the Song and Ming dynasties the practices of Buddhist meditation and Daoist neidan were really mixed up. In the Ming dynast mixed versions of practices, both Buddhist and Daoist, were spread all over China. If the origin of Yijinjing is old (which I at least partly doubt) then the origin should be found in one of these periods. In the time of Damo, there were Indian meditation and Daoist Daoyin, but Buddhism and Taoism and their disciplines were kept very much separated. The Yijinjing type of practice clearly has a much more Chinese and Daoist origin than Buddhist.


Nicely stated. The emergence of Quanzhen Daoism seems to show significant influence from Buddhism (Ch'an, Tiantai). The seated practice of Baduanjin goes back to the Song Dynasty (at least). The different levels at which Baduanjin, another mind/daoyin teaching, can be practiced reminds me of the approaches to Yijinjing I've been shown.

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:05 am
by Overlord


In this instance I will say this puppet show will have more substance on this subject~

Re: Ma Gui Bagua - interview with Master Li Baohua

PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2020 12:15 am
by Overlord
Tom
You miss my point. The puppet show is only the finger pointing the moon.
It’s definitely not middle finger.
Cheers
PS of course, it’s better to learn with Li Laoshi for a very detail and comprehensive teaching on Yijinjing and Gui Guzi.