Push hands yang vs wu

[origami_itto]

Curious what the group makes of this.

Fantastic clip of Micah Guglielmi in the white striped pants against Wu Stylest Jackie Chan at the Australian National Tai Chi Championships 2019. Push Hands at its finest

[Bill]

It looks more like 2 football linemen shoving each other around.

[Bao]

The big guy uses his strength, speed and mass. Who can blame him if the other guy can't defend himself?

... If I was the big guy, I would be embarrassed to put this on Youtube though...

[Bhassler]

The big guy uses his strength, speed and mass. Who can blame him if the other guy can't defend himself?

What about soft overcoming hard, and weak overcoming strong, and all that stuff? Either it works or it doesn't-- there's no need for excuses or justifications.

[Bao]

The big guy uses his strength, speed and mass. Who can blame him if the other guy can't defend himself?

What about soft overcoming hard, and weak overcoming strong, and all that stuff? Either it works or it doesn't-- there's no need for excuses or justifications.

There's no excuse for sucking, period.

The other guy doesn’t even try to be soft.

[wayne hansen]

This is from the lineage holder of the Fu line of Yang style
It is his number one student

[nicklinjm]

Look, surely this has been discussed on RSF dozens of times before. Admittedly the Wu guy does suck (no neutralising or redirecting), but doesn't look good for the big Yang guy either - little to no taiji skill on display here at all. It's 95% just low level shoving.

[Subitai]

3 basic foundations in Kung Fu...Speed, Power & Skill ( or ability or Technique).

Obviously the guy on the rt has way too much power for the other guy to even handle. It's not as if the RT guy is even trying to finesse him. Also, he looks physically bigger and heavier...which is also on his side (when coupled with strength)

* What i'd like to point out is...sometimes an opponent can be SO OVERWHELMINGLY STRONG...it doesn't really matter what skill or speed the other guys has. Meaning Strength of such a great magnitude can overcome allot. It sucks but it's true.

! Is it particularly ARTFUL OR EVEN WELL DONE? NO, I don't think so.

IMO, I wouldn't say the guy on the left sucks until I personally pushed with both of them to compare. Too easy to judge from afar.

I'd like to see BAO, handle a guy of that size and strength...Under those rules and in that diameter circle and still say he'd have no excuse for his overwhelming strength.

[GrahamB]

Tai Chi Miasma.

[Bao]

I'd like to see BAO, handle a guy of that size and strength...Under those rules and in that diameter circle and still say he'd have no excuse for his overwhelming strength.

I am not looking down on anyone. I just can't see if the big guy here has skill or not, so I don't know if he has it. As I said, I can't blame him for how he plays his game, he doesn't need to show any four ounces moves one thousand pounds type of stuff here when he can just shovel away the other guy. Though I suspect he has some good experience.

But I would like to try a friendly match against the big guy in the vid. It would be interesting. I am not a big guy, so trying to use strength, as the wu guy apparently did, is not a smart approach. Most of my former students were bigger than me and most of them studied other arts, BJJ, MMA and that kind of stuff. I wouldn't dare to play on the ground with anyone of them, but it was pretty easy to play PH with them with PH rules, and I had a lot of fun doing it. No one was even close to take me down. So I have handled many guys of that size and strength. No problem really as long as you don't let them apply strength directly against you. But still, not all, but many of the big guys I've played with were my students and beginners that had no experience with PH. But when you play with someone who has some skill and routine, the odds are very different. This disciple here of Sam Masich, I have no idea if he has some real Tai Chi skill or not as I can't se it here. But I suspect he does, and also have some good routine. I am not the greatest fan of the little I have personally seen from Sam, but I do respect his background. He has studied with some of the best people for a very long time. Here we can speak about routine, meeting and playing PH and sparring with tons of different people. A person with a whole lot of routine, smaller or bigger, can be very, very hard to cope with, because they have probably met and seen a whole lot more than what you have and can have tricks up their sleeves you have never encountered before. So personally, I am not worried about size really, though it certainly matters in one way or another. Skill is a completely different thing and has very little to do with size. But, trying to unbalance or push away a big guy with some decent amount of skill is sometimes an impossible task, like trying to move a mountain. But still, it's fun trying. The easy or hard way doesn't matter, the more you can learn about your own limits the better. Winning or loosing doesn't matter. Just IME and IMHO. YMMV.

[Trick]

Can’t see the vid, maybe I can search the Chinese tubes. What’s the name of the Yang/Fu line guy, and the Wu is that the Wu or Wu/Hao, what’s the names of the combatants ?

[GrahamB]

Whatever Tai Chi is supposed to be, I think that Wayne's signature says it best "Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form" - I don't see that in the video.

[Bao]

Can’t see the vid, maybe I can search the Chinese tubes. What’s the name of the Yang/Fu line guy, and the Wu is that the Wu or Wu/Hao, what’s the names of the combatants ?

Fu as Fu Zhongwen - Yang Zhenduo - Sam Masich. Too lazy to check up the name of Sam's student, sorry.

Edit: Damon Samich. Sorry.

[origami_itto]

Can’t see the vid, maybe I can search the Chinese tubes. What’s the name of the Yang/Fu line guy, and the Wu is that the Wu or Wu/Hao, what’s the names of the combatants ?

Fu as Fu Zhongwen - Yang Zhenduo - Sam Masich. Too lazy to check up the name of Sam's student, sorry.

This is actually Damon Bramich's student Micah Guglielmi. Damon's the one sharing these lately. Here's another with Damon, he's the shorter fellow. He's very proud of his Fu lineage and is always posting pictures of himself with Fu Zhongwen and his son.

Push Hands British Traditional Taiji C-ships Heavy Weight Final 2016


So for me, like most of you, looking at it I don't see what I consider Taijiquan, just some shoving. But is that accurate? If the other guy is training taiji then shouldn't he be able to resist at least some? It reminds me of Mario Napoli in Chen village. If what he did was wrong, how did he beat all those people doing it "right"? Or has "right" just disappeared from the earth? Is what they're doing "better"?

Trick, I added some details that might help you find it on Chinese tubes

[windwalker]

If what he did was wrong, how did he beat all those people doing it "right"? Or has "right" just disappeared from the earth? Is what they're doing "better"?

It is said those who practice true Taiji are like the horns of a cow ,compared to the many hairs on its body.

Just a “hair” noting this

One might think “different “ as opposed to better.
If both or all use the same methods naturally other attributes besides the methods will come into play.
in watching the clip the other guy is late.

Why he is late is because he is reacting instead of acting.
he is allowing the others force to build up on him not understanding what he feels is his own resistance.

In this sense he didn’t understand what attaching and joining mean.
If he can’t attach and join this means he can’t follow.

Not being able to follow he can’t lead.

This means his actions will always be late

Not a fan of push hands