Rickson knife defence

[GrahamB]

https://youtu.be/BzrXrCdS7Qo



It's at 3.38.

Keenan has another opinion

What do you think?

(You could say the same thing for sword applications I see...... now and again....)

[Taste of Death]

Is there a psycho defense?
https://twitter.com/jakewasikowski/status/1248345166081114113?s=20

[dspyrido]

Maybe rickson has some unnatural psychic ability that draws the knife hand wrist to his palm, then adds sticking ability that glues the opponents knife hand and is combined with some real amazing iron forearms that defy knife cuts.

Keenans on the right track. Grappling with a knife will very likely end up in cuts. If that's the tactic then get used to the sight of blood. There are better moves but odds are still with the knife holder.

[Giles]

The very clean and empty dojo environment shown in the test (good work!) doesn't offer any objects large or small that one could grab to help knife defence. Most environments will offer something - if you/I had time and awareness to recognize and reach something.
In the test shown in the video, if there were time enough then maybe the best thing for the defender would be to pull off his trousers/pants and use this garment in defence and to back up the pure grappling.

No way am I setting myself up as a 'knife expert' here, this is just my unqualified and half-serious musing. Semi-lockdown does that to people...

[fuga]

BJJ is not where I look to for solutions to/with weapons.

[Finny]

BJJ is not where I look to for solutions to/with weapons.

This.

One of the cool things about studying koryu jujutsu is the focus on weapons, typically knives/short swords. Makes for a slightly different approach.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

BJJ is not where I look to for solutions to/with weapons.

This.

One of the cool things about studying koryu jujutsu is the focus on weapons, typically knives/short swords. Makes for a slightly different approach.

Definitely. I never did koryu formally, but our danzan ryu had several scrolls on weapon defense and we started as kids working with markers and blunt knives. Of course, I found the results to be mixed. I know from personal experience that what we learned can work. But, I also learned (by getting stabbed) that they don't always work. Anyway, danzan ryu took a lot from older arts, and some of that stuff is pretty neat.

I don't understand what Rickson is doing with the blade up against his wrist like that. Theoretically, if you can keep the blade from moving at all, it won't cut. But, it didn't look like he was going to be able to do that. I'd have assumed that the older Gracies would have some real experience with that sort of stuff considering what they were up to in Brazil back in the day.

[Finny]

Definitely. I never did koryu formally, but our danzan ryu had several scrolls on weapon defense and we started as kids working with markers and blunt knives. Of course, I found the results to be mixed. I know from personal experience that what we learned can work. But, I also learned (by getting stabbed) that they don't always work. Anyway, danzan ryu took a lot from older arts, and some of that stuff is pretty neat.

I don't understand what Rickson is doing with the blade up against his wrist like that. Theoretically, if you can keep the blade from moving at all, it won't cut. But, it didn't look like he was going to be able to do that. I'd have assumed that the older Gracies would have some real experience with that sort of stuff considering what they were up to in Brazil back in the day.

Yeah exactly - I'm a noob so can't comment with any degree of knowledge at all, but it's been fantastic so far. Sosuishiryu had close links with Kano and the Kodokan, so we do both koryu jj and Kodokan judo, which seems similar to the DZR approach. My teacher says EDIT (knew I'd got it wrong..) 'Judo was made safe so we can train dangerously. Jujutsu is dangerous so we must train safely'.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

Definitely. I never did koryu formally, but our danzan ryu had several scrolls on weapon defense and we started as kids working with markers and blunt knives. Of course, I found the results to be mixed. I know from personal experience that what we learned can work. But, I also learned (by getting stabbed) that they don't always work. Anyway, danzan ryu took a lot from older arts, and some of that stuff is pretty neat.

I don't understand what Rickson is doing with the blade up against his wrist like that. Theoretically, if you can keep the blade from moving at all, it won't cut. But, it didn't look like he was going to be able to do that. I'd have assumed that the older Gracies would have some real experience with that sort of stuff considering what they were up to in Brazil back in the day.

Yeah exactly - I'm a noob so can't comment with any degree of knowledge at all, but it's been fantastic so far. Sosuishiryu had close links with Kano and the Kodokan, so we do both koryu jj and Kodokan judo, which seems similar to the DZR approach. My teacher says EDIT (knew I'd got it wrong..) 'Judo was made safe so we can train dangerously. Jujutsu is dangerous so we must train safely'.

That's really interesting that your teacher said that. Ellis Amdur also requires a certain rank of Judo or something similar before starting with him in the koryu he teaches. For me, when my DZR teacher retired the second time (he came out of retirement to train me up and test me for shodan), I moved from NorCal to SoCal and started at a new dojo. I soon found out that, unlike my first dojo (age 11-30), no other DZR dojos had adult sumo and judo randori (although these were still done in all the kids classes). So, I moved to straight judo while continuing taijiquan.

Judo done with thoughtful people is quite safe, even when going full tilt. Get some jerks in there and be careless with who is doing randori and bad things will happen. Once you start competing, it's not safe at all. I don't think I ever attended a shiai where there wasn't at least one knockout *and* a broken arm. Not counting unconsciousness from shime waza. Things got rough enough at blackbelt that I stopped competing after a few years at that level. I had to dig holes for a living.

[Finny]

That's really interesting that your teacher said that. Ellis Amdur also requires a certain rank of Judo or something similar before starting with him in the koryu he teaches. For me, when my DZR teacher retired the second time (he came out of retirement to train me up and test me for shodan), I moved from NorCal to SoCal and started at a new dojo. I soon found out that, unlike my first dojo (age 11-30), no other DZR dojos had adult sumo and judo randori (although these were still done in all the kids classes). So, I moved to straight judo while continuing taijiquan.

Judo done with thoughtful people is quite safe, even when going full tilt. Get some jerks in there and be careless with who is doing randori and bad things will happen. Once you start competing, it's not safe at all. I don't think I ever attended a shiai where there wasn't at least one knockout *and* a broken arm. Not counting unconsciousness from shime waza. Things got rough enough at blackbelt that I stopped competing after a few years at that level. I had to dig holes for a living.

Yeah we have a very small group, all of whom are beginners, but an incredible teacher; he's still young but has been training since he was a kid. Luckily all the guys are really cool, and being a koryu/judo dojo that's not really competition oriented, the pace and approach is perfect (for me at least, being a broken down old thing). Despite that in just the couple of years I've been training I've popped a shoulder and damaged an ankle, on top of myriad minor bangs and scrapes. Worth it though

[Dmitri]

Maybe rickson has some unnatural psychic ability that draws the knife hand wrist to his palm, then adds sticking ability that glues the opponents knife hand and is combined with some real amazing iron forearms that defy knife cuts.

Here's the same move where the entry dynamics aren't cut out of the video like in the OP's little "basic" fragment, and done with a bit more realistic intent.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_GExUhxd-M

Grappling with a knife will very likely end up in cuts. If that's the tactic then get used to the sight of blood. There are better moves but odds are still with the knife holder.

Yes. I would expand that from just "grappling" to say that with any type of knife defense the odds are with the attacker.

Any defense in which you actually engage the guy would mean you couldn't get away for whatever reason.
So from that perspective -- I don't know who this Keenan is (only watched the relevant part of the video), but what would he (or any of you) do if he/you had to engage to defend an attack from that particular angle?

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

Maybe rickson has some unnatural psychic ability that draws the knife hand wrist to his palm, then adds sticking ability that glues the opponents knife hand and is combined with some real amazing iron forearms that defy knife cuts.

Here's the same move where the entry dynamics aren't cut out of the video like in the OP's little "basic" fragment, and done with a bit more realistic intent.

Grappling with a knife will very likely end up in cuts. If that's the tactic then get used to the sight of blood. There are better moves but odds are still with the knife holder.

Yes. I would expand that from just "grappling" to say that with any type of knife defense the odds are with the attacker.

Any defense in which you actually engage the guy would mean you couldn't get away for whatever reason.
So from that perspective -- I don't know who this Keenan is (only watched the relevant part of the video), but what would he (or any of you) do if he/you had to engage to defend an attack from that particular angle?

I thought everyone knew who Keenan is.

Keenan Kai-James Cornelius is a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu practitioner originally from Hawaii and is currently based in San Diego, California. His competitive achievements include what has been called a "grand slam" in Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, having won double gold medals at four major tournaments: the World Jiu-Jitsu Championship, Pan-American Championship, European Open Championship, and Brazilian National Jiu-Jitsu Championship - as a brown belt.[33] He is also known for his creation of guard techniques such as the Worm Guard.

Re: "that particular angle," do you mean the one Rickson is defending against?

[GrahamB]

Ok forget the rest of this thread. I’m just here to see a bjj guy who is so out of touch he doesn’t know who Keenan is. I mean damn, son!

[Trick]

Whenever knife defence topic comes up, an old ‘inside Kungfu’ or was it ‘Black Belt’ magazine article comes to my mind. An Wing Chun(or whatever spelling it was)teacher posed with his “Kungfu”sneakers on his hands as an logical protective action agains an knife attacker.
However in the GJJ dojo there’s not that shoe option unless perhaps in the locker room.

Anyway, for the streets, how about always wear a sturdy leather belt with a massive belt buckle, could that be of use if there’s a ripper on the loose ? (Be sure to wear pants that anyway stay up without the obi)

[dspyrido]

Grappling with a knife will very likely end up in cuts. If that's the tactic then get used to the sight of blood. There are better moves but odds are still with the knife holder.

Yes. I would expand that from just "grappling" to say that with any type of knife defense the odds are with the attacker.

You don't need to expand. My reference was that unarmed vs armed in general - the odds are with the knife holder.

Any defense in which you actually engage the guy would mean you couldn't get away for whatever reason.
So from that perspective -- I don't know who this Keenan is (only watched the relevant part of the video), but what would he (or any of you) do if he/you had to engage to defend an attack from that particular angle?

Want an advantage? Wear the doomsday prepping tactical gear. It minimises cuts.

At a minimum good gloves will avoid getting sliced fingers. Ones that cover the forearms are a bonus.

Or pick up a longer weapon. Let's go with a spear. Or a gun.

The average knife holder will cut some of the best unarmed martial artists to ribbons. The top guys are probably ~ 20:1.

On tactics when outside the stabby range - use the legs & long arms. Kick the knife, slap the ear, jab, run away.

When in close go to the outside and control the elbow and wrist. Cover the palm to stop them swapping. Use knife on the attacker, 2 on 1, baseball grips, head butts, groin shots etc etc

This all assumes the knife guy is even seen before they stab away...

Best defence is still use the legs ... and run.