the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

@Trick, regarding the back hand pointing to the left in Santi - the way GrahamB does his is almost identical to how Wang Senlin in Shanghai (also from multiple Hebei lineages) does his Santi, so I'd say it's a known variation. My personal understanding is that Santi with fingers pointed left helps train left-right structural power (which should also be present in good Santi), but YMMV.

GrahamB wrote:If you can't see the vids then here are the pics:

thanks! as the dragon and eagle both of the hands/arms work on the same line and fingers come to point in same direction, is that also the case when you practice piquan, or does your "pulling" arm/hand end up in the position as dispayed in your santishi pic?

Trick - those are only 1 possible example of dragon and eagle, not a set-in-stone "this is eagle" type thing.

San Ti Shi is the same as the end posture of Piquan for us.

nicklinjm wrote:@Trick, regarding the back hand pointing to the left in Santi - the way GrahamB does his is almost identical to how Wang Senlin in Shanghai (also from multiple Hebei lineages) does his Santi, so I'd say it's a known variation. My personal understanding is that Santi with fingers pointed left helps train left-right structural power (which should also be present in good Santi), but YMMV.

ive not been around many XYQ practitionets and teachers so probably why ive never seen that kind of santishi before... yes, could be so that it help with side to side structural power, however, the possible intent applied in that santishi seem not to follow the pronounced forwardness intent of the 5 elements ? but as Grahame point out that it work in some of the animal shapes ?

GrahamB wrote:No, I think it's the way it's meant to be done. If you watch the best ground guys, they move like a snake - I'm thinking of Demian Maia. Just watch his ground game vs Ben Askren (especially the ending) - it's like he becomes a snake :

Thanks for your reply maybe my question was not so clear .
You post a lot about grappling, thought that maybe this would be your way of combining it.

In my own practice I combine white crane long arm and footwork with taiji theory.
A little different from each reflecting my own usage and understanding , not really
trying to present it as either .

Not sure what you’re talking about.

Yin snake is pretty much grappling - it’s not complicated.

GrahamB wrote:Not sure what you’re talking about.

Yin snake is pretty much grappling - it’s not complicated.

Not really familiar with the style, don’t know much about what the “snake” does or does not do stylistically within that style.

On rsf you post a lot about grappling just thought it might be an adaptation to facilitate something you like to do or talk about.

Just wondered

Struggling to understand you. Are you saying ‘is the Xing Yi you’re showing ammodified because you also grapple?’ No. No it’s not.

Trick wrote:I can’t see the YouTube videos, but I see the pic of the santishi posture where the back arm is turned such as the elbow point out to the right and fingers point towards left.
It seem not to go with the same intent as the forward arm/hand ?
In what linage is this Santishi ?

I not criticizing anything, just curious.

In Hong Yixiang Yizong Tangshou dao, it’s also taught this way where elbow is pointing laterally to prepare taking impact from lateral side. And back is round. AFAIK.

But tang shou Tao is nothing like what is shown here

Overlord wrote:

Trick wrote:I can’t see the YouTube videos, but I see the pic of the santishi posture where the back arm is turned such as the elbow point out to the right and fingers point towards left.
It seem not to go with the same intent as the forward arm/hand ?
In what linage is this Santishi ?

I not criticizing anything, just curious.

In Hong Yixiang Yizong Tangshou dao, it’s also taught this way where elbow is pointing laterally to prepare taking impact from lateral side. And back is round. AFAIK.

Yes, could be like that. Anyway as i have in my learning experience, for example In YiQuan ZZ the two arms/hands follow/express equally the same intent. It’s not that one arm/hand predominantly express side to side intent while the other predominantly express an front/back intent.
As also for the santishi as I learned from my XYQ teacher the two arm/hands work with on same intent. Lateral stability is included with the cross body practice. But main objective is what’s to deal with in front (in where minding with the back includes, as well as other body parts)

Hong Yixiang’s back hand position in Santishi Zhuang was definitely not at a right angle to the front hand. His method was to point the thumb toward the navel and forefinger toward the elbow of the forward arm. As such, it was meant to spread the Tiger’s mouth. (area between the thumb and forefinger) as well as to angle the thenar eminence downward.

Who would have thought the angle of a back hand was such a big deal? Welcome to the Internet, I guess

GrahamB wrote:Who would have thought the angle of a back hand was such a big deal?

The two arms/hands, yes the whole body work in union in the ZZ . Let your “backhand” join in with the rest of the body.

Brinkman wrote:Hong Yixiang’s back hand position in Santishi Zhuang was definitely not at a right angle to the front hand. His method was to point the thumb toward the navel and forefinger toward the elbow of the forward arm. As such, it was meant to spread the Tiger’s mouth. (area between the thumb and forefinger) as well as to angle the thenar eminence downward.

Now this makes sense. I’ll guess some that studied him just copied what they thought was right ?