Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

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Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby Overlord on Mon May 11, 2020 4:16 am

形意拳術抉微

https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/brennantranslation.wordpress.com/2012/09/29/the-xingyi-manual-of-liu-dianchen/amp/

內要提者:「緊撮穀道提其氣使上聚於丹田復使聚於丹田之氣由背骨而直達於腦頂週流往返循環無端卽譜所謂緊撮穀道」內中提也。

三心要並者:「頂心往下脚心往上手心往回也三者所以使氣會於一處盖頂心不往下則上之氣不能入於丹田脚心不往上則下之氣不能收於丹田手心不往回則外之氣不能縮於丹田故必三心一並而氣始可歸於一也」
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby Strange on Mon May 11, 2020 7:27 am

Thanks Overlord,
Nice one :)
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby Strange on Mon May 11, 2020 7:40 am



yiquan say opposing force 争力
xingyi say front hand hit opponent, rear hand apply force 前手打人 后手着力
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby suckinlhbf on Mon May 11, 2020 8:41 am

三心要並者:「頂心往下脚心往上手心往回也三者所以使氣會於一處盖頂心不往下則上之氣不能入於丹田脚心不往上則下之氣不能收於丹田手心不往回則外之氣不能縮於丹田故必三心一並而氣始可歸於一也」

xingyi say front hand hit opponent, rear hand apply force 前手打人 后手着力

They seem contradict to each other. The intent of the first quote is inward, and the intent is outward in the second quote.
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby Bob on Mon May 11, 2020 9:37 am

At the 3:06 I don't know if they mixed baji and xing yi but clearly many of the moves are combinations of xiao baji jia, da baji, and liu da kai - The way I learned xing yi was never to mix the systems - maybe I am missing something in the clip, :-[
Last edited by Bob on Mon May 11, 2020 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby suckinlhbf on Mon May 11, 2020 10:19 am

The Mr. Li (son-in-law of Shang YunXiang 尚雲祥 ) in the clip wrote a book on XingYi. His opinion on fajin is 腰催肩、肩催肘、肘催手,“三催”之劲 (push). other than the older writings of 起、随、追 (follow through). It is an interesting development of XingYi.
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby Overlord on Tue May 12, 2020 12:12 am

suckinlhbf wrote:
三心要並者:「頂心往下脚心往上手心往回也三者所以使氣會於一處盖頂心不往下則上之氣不能入於丹田脚心不往上則下之氣不能收於丹田手心不往回則外之氣不能縮於丹田故必三心一並而氣始可歸於一也」

xingyi say front hand hit opponent, rear hand apply force 前手打人 后手着力

They seem contradict to each other. The intent of the first quote is inward, and the intent is outward in the second quote.


What a lot of people don’t know, both Guo Yunsheng and Liu Qilan learnt Baji before their Xingyi.
In my opinion, Baji emphasis on sudden explosive expansion, while Xingyi has unique Shu (束勁), bit like elastic band tightens bundle of bamboo.

If you do spear basics, you know the spear never leaves dantian when doing lan na zha, this is done concurrently with small tense of dantian and back hand doing the work. So basically dantian acts as pivot.
Xingyi transfer this idea and further improve upon to refine the force.
In my opinion again, 前手打人,後手着力 need prerequisites of full dantian to form balance pivot, that is the left side of force should be equal to that of the right. Full dantian does not mean big dantian (big belly).

The passage of Liu is very direct and simple, but not to be taken lightly.
Personally I start using Huizhong baoyue 懷中抱月 or Bengquan pose for ZZ, and then go to Santishi, the Hunyuan zz for a great finish.
Last edited by Overlord on Tue May 12, 2020 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby Bob on Tue May 12, 2020 3:30 am

Great clip - lengthen the stance, turn rear foot to 90 degree angle, turn front foot 30 degrees and you have baji's half horse/half bow stance and one of the moving baji da qiang training exercises

One of 12 da qiang training exercises although we start with stationary training - there also partner training using the da qiang
Last edited by Bob on Tue May 12, 2020 3:34 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby Overlord on Tue May 12, 2020 6:17 am



Love the way spear tuck to the Dantian.
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby suckinlhbf on Tue May 12, 2020 9:41 am

The clips on Xingyi are good. Would love to see more 脚打七分手打三 (70% legs and 30% hands).
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby Overlord on Tue May 12, 2020 12:52 pm

suckinlhbf wrote:The clips on Xingyi are good. Would love to see more 脚打七分手打三 (70% legs and 30% hands).


As you are probably aware, he is trying to conceal the intend and minimize the moment as much as possible. 拳打三節不見形~
But you can still see spear and use of Dantian hopefully.
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby suckinlhbf on Tue May 12, 2020 2:35 pm

One big circle movement and one small circle movement. Both show the spear and Dantian. No eyeball rolling and angry face but 面善心狠.



Last edited by suckinlhbf on Tue May 12, 2020 2:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Selected excerpt of Xingyi by Liu Diansheng

Postby Strange on Wed May 13, 2020 7:20 am

many vids show, tcma have poor showing in real fight.
the person is like lost, seemingly not sure where he's at.

the "lost" i am using is that he does not know what this exercise try to accomplish/build,
is this a method to reach a goal? or it is the goal itself? or after you reach this what is the
next step? Lost; so there is basically no way for him to reach his destination:
which is to be able to use tcma effectively.

i think now tcma is like this.
you see and look carefully at the legs
cannot stand firmly, floating around
very unsure where the 2 legs is standing
opponent come charging in, he get over run.
if one does not know where one's 2 legs is standing is, this meaning is...?
Lost.
天官指星 单对月 风摆荷叶 影成双

岳武穆王以枪为拳, 六合形意李门世根, 形意拳五行为先, 论身法六合为首,少揽闲事心田静, 多读拳谱武艺精 - 李洛能 (形意拳谱)
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