the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

You do realise the woman on the front of the Shen fa book is actually playing a harp and the harp is photo shopped out
All martial arts have Shen fa
I can tell a boxer by how he moves in daily life
Shen fa if well trained is in everything you do
Every aspect ot internal training is necessary
Balancing each part is where the secret lies
Bags ,weights ,forms ,noi gung,weapons pushing,sparring and conditioning are all a part

wayne hansen wrote:https://youtu.be/4hRNG4VYcLc

I just carefully watched the fight and then this clip,
this is horrible.
Sigh~ 乩童～

If we're asking about Shen Fa and Tao Lu(forms) (I can't distinguish meaningfully between them, and I don't think you need to) then it's worth watching this again, if you haven't seen it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olYctJ6crTw

I just interviewed Byron Jacobs on my channel and we talked quite deeply about the Ma Bao Guo fight, about Xu Xiao Dong and Lei Lei and other topics. I think Byron gave an excellent explanation of the toxic environment in CMA society in China and how it is related to the rise in nationalism and the government's push to repackage what Taiji is as part of their soft power campaign.

Formosa Neijia wrote:The problem isn't HIS shenfa is terrible, no the problem is stressing shenfa AT ALL.

Several people in the thread seem not to know that CHINESE INTERNAL MARTIAL ARTS MOVES ARE NOT LIKE THOSE FOUND IN OTHER MARTIAL ARTS. THEY ARE VERY ABSTRACT AND MUST BE INTERPRETED TO BE APPLIED.

When I did tai-otoshi in shadow uchikomi in judo, that tai-otoshi looked exactly like what I would do against an opponent. It didn't need to be interpreted. When you shadowbox in boxing, the moves are the same as you would apply them. CIMA DOES NOT WORK LIKE THAT.

Yes, I understand IMA may have a special way of training and emphasizing shen fa. Regarding application of it, I have asked in a few posts involving chen village fighters where the unique shen fa was in their matches against the thais (fixed?), demonstrations and rolling. Because to me, their hip throws, kicks, punches, grappling, trips, etc., look like any other "external" fighter. In fact, they state they train sanda (why?). I have not seen a sparring/fighting video showing "CIMA shen fa" being applied and it's effects despite having asked for one.

Formosa Neijia wrote:There are many abstractions that get in the way of applying CIMA in regards to shenfa. ...

4. Every style claims to have it's special shenfa which is somehow completely different from every other fighting art on earth but almost none of these teachers can show you in combat WHY they move like that. The reason is that what is needed in application is much shorter, sharper, and smaller than what is expressed as shenfa while doing a solo form, especially when some teacher is going out of his way to earn money by separting his system ("I'm the only one" $$$$) from others by his special shenfa. Once all the flowery shit gets taken out, what ends up being applied looks very similar across MA styles because human combat places demands on the body. This is why all this nonsense about how combat "doesn't look like taiji" comes from. What's necessary to survive an assault is the important part, not the flowery BS. This is inverted in CIMA.

Pretty much what I alluded to above.

DK Yoo was asked about 21-year-old boxer Ryan Garcia's knockout in an interview I just posted. Ryan Garcia's movement may be considered boxing shen fa as this is a movement and timing that is "exactly like" he practices.

Ryan Garcia's description, "Sugar Ray Robinson's perfect left hook. You check this way and he comes in. You catch him in between the shot (timing). You got to catch him in between the shot. So, 'uh' (check by closing left front kua) and I seen his shot then 'bang:'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XXOMrSU8O4

Training and principles (universal) in executing the movement Ryan used to defend himself: loosely ting, hua, yin, na, fa, shen fa practiced exactly like he used in the fight, power comes from kua (Ryan closed left front kua, then closed right rear kua shifting weight taking head offline while check hooking), simultaneous defense/offense, know your opponent, get opponent double weighted, issuing left hook, etc.

Back to Ma Baoguo, the culture he was brought up in might have told Ma boxers only "trade" punches causing them to only see Ryan's finishing left hook. Ma may have been delusional thinking all he needed was his shen fa, since sanda fighters have nothing (no "CMA" skills) on him which caused him to get KO'd.

chenyaolong wrote:I just interviewed Byron Jacobs on my channel and we talked quite deeply about the Ma Bao Guo fight, about Xu Xiao Dong and Lei Lei and other topics. I think Byron gave an excellent explanation of the toxic environment in CMA society in China and how it is related to the rise in nationalism and the government's push to repackage what Taiji

How deep is this knowledge, does it come from watching some videos on the chinese tubes, or some CCTV program, or some of the local Chinese channels.......

Formosa Neijia wrote:Several people in the thread seem not to know that CHINESE INTERNAL MARTIAL ARTS MOVES ARE NOT LIKE THOSE FOUND IN OTHER MARTIAL ARTS. THEY ARE VERY ABSTRACT AND MUST BE INTERPRETED TO BE APPLIED.

When I did tai-otoshi in shadow uchikomi in judo, that tai-otoshi looked exactly like what I would do against an opponent. It didn't need to be
.

You seem to have gettin stuck in your TJQ understanding....Why can’t all your Taijiquan moves be directly applied on a training partner ? Why do you find them “abstract” for applications........Yes there are levels of practice in TJQ,, some might seem abstract but at some point they should kind of merge....but till then the application of the moves can be as simple as your Judo moves, however at that level maybe your TJQ practice does not live up to the expectations you originally had about TJQ.

Trick wrote:

chenyaolong wrote:I just interviewed Byron Jacobs on my channel and we talked quite deeply about the Ma Bao Guo fight, about Xu Xiao Dong and Lei Lei and other topics. I think Byron gave an excellent explanation of the toxic environment in CMA society in China and how it is related to the rise in nationalism and the government's push to repackage what Taiji

How deep is this knowledge, does it come from watching some videos on the chinese tubes, or some CCTV program, or some of the local Chinese channels.......

Did you actually listen to it?

Trick wrote:You seem to have gettin stuck in your TJQ understanding....Why can’t all your Taijiquan moves be directly applied on a training partner ? Why do you find them “abstract” for applications........Yes there are levels of practice in TJQ,, some might seem abstract but at some point they should kind of merge....but till then the application of the moves can be as simple as your Judo moves, however at that level maybe your TJQ practice does not live up to the expectations you originally had about TJQ.

agree

Taiji does not exist outside of those who practice it, who have their own "expectations" and understanding of it.
Whether they reach it or not, they "know" it. For one to change any minds they first must convince others they "know" it according to their view
not ones own. Otherwise it won't be considered as such...

IME the high levels are less public, for many reasons one of which from those I've met
they really dont care.

kind of following

Tao Te Ching - Lao Tzu - chapter 56

Those who know do not talk.
Those who talk do not know.

Keep your mouth closed.
Guard your senses.
Temper your sharpness.
Simplify your problems.
Mask your brightness.
Be at one with the dust of the earth.
This is primal union.

He who has achieved this state
Is unconcerned with friends and enemies,
With good and harm, with honour and disgrace.
This therefore is the highest state of man.

chenyaolong wrote:

Trick wrote:

chenyaolong wrote:I just interviewed Byron Jacobs on my channel and we talked quite deeply about the Ma Bao Guo fight, about Xu Xiao Dong and Lei Lei and other topics. I think Byron gave an excellent explanation of the toxic environment in CMA society in China and how it is related to the rise in nationalism and the government's push to repackage what Taiji

How deep is this knowledge, does it come from watching some videos on the chinese tubes, or some CCTV program, or some of the local Chinese channels.......

Did you actually listen to it?

aya, its the darn video link section and i cant see youtube.....so i should probably zip it.......but i still can wonder, from what chinese government source comes the idea of "repackaging taijiquan" ?