Druggy in MMA

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Druggy in MMA

Postby Overlord on Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:01 am

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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby Overlord on Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:12 am

I was trying to find Roy’s interview clip but can’t find it now.
It seems the reason UFC turned blind to the situation is because drugs enhanced fighter can prolong the fight,
the fighters seems have more strength with wrestling and tackle,
but as Mark pointed out, it does not enhance the striker game.
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby marvin8 on Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:21 am

Overlord wrote:Drugs usage appears common in MMA. ...

I was trying to find Roy’s interview clip but can’t find it now.

Do you have any other evidence that "drug use is common?"

Both Mark and Roy appear out of shape with declining fight records, the likely type to complain about competitors. They mention a minority handful of fighters that were caught (e.g., recreational, PEDs) under USADA drug testing.

Overlord wrote:It seems the reason UFC turned blind to the situation is because drugs enhanced fighter can prolong the fight,
the fighters seems have more strength with wrestling and tackle,
but as Mark pointed out, it does not enhance the striker game.

Rather than "turned blind," the UFC implemented USADA drug testing in 2015 which changed the amount of drug use in the UFC.

Interview with Jeff Novitzky, Vice President of Athlete Health and Performance for the UFC:

PowerfulJRE
Dec 27, 2018


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=so3qOEMZXDQ
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby Peacedog on Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:02 am

Drug use in sports is endemic. Doesn't matter what the sport is.

Everyone from the high amateur level on is using.

The US, alone, has an estimated SIX MILLION steroid users. And that doesn't count TRT either.

Even the biathltes, the guys on skis that shoot guns, use beta-blockers to drop their heart rates. It steadies the gun when they get off the skis.

Telmisartan/Cadarine are used by endurance athletes to extend their ability to train harder.

The list goes on and on.

Once guys, and some women, get competitive the idea of operating "natural" goes out the window. Put a lot of money on the line and forget anyone playing without some kind of aid.

Even if they are off cycle on the day they compete, they used while getting ready for the event so they could train more often and recover.

It is a big enough problem that if I was dealing with athletes who were in any way competitive and something weird happened with their blood work my next question was "what are you using?"
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby GrahamB on Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:24 am

Pro MMA athletes getting Busted for tainted samples is quite common. So it may be common practice taking them but it’s also quite common they get caught (in the ufc).

With usada testing in the ufc those athletes are tested like Olympic athletes. Which is crazy because your average fighter doesn’t get paid enough to make this a full time job. Capitalism for the win!
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby marvin8 on Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:29 am

GrahamB wrote:Pro MMA athletes getting Busted for tainted samples is quite common. So it may be common practice taking them but it’s also quite common they get caught (in the ufc).

Please (people/haters :) ) elaborate on "quite common." How are you determining this? In 2019, how many UFC fighters have been tested for PEDs and out of those how many "got caught?" Is it a small minority or majority?
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby GrahamB on Sun Jun 21, 2020 9:49 am

Google is your friend.

Good old Uncle Dana just said “This is not a career”, well then stop drug testing them like they’re Olympic athletes! Fighting makes no economic sense.
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby marvin8 on Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:06 am

GrahamB wrote:Google is your friend.

Good old Uncle Dana just said “This is not a career”, well then stop drug testing them like they’re Olympic athletes! Fighting makes no economic sense.

Not understanding.

If you go by the numbers (facts) and only a small percentage of UFC fighters failed the USADA drug test, would that mean it is common or uncommon for UFC fighters to "get busted for tainted samples?"
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby jaime_g on Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:23 am

I know many fighters that use steroids and can pass "normal" drug testings. It depends on how often and how deep they are being tested.

At lower professional levels it's enough to know when are you going to compete and get tested. They can planify their cycles around that. That is happening at low level competitions. Add more money and you get better drugs and coachs that can make magic happen.

UFC fighters getting caught is just because of sloppy planification or random testing, not a real problem if there is enough money around, but as Graham said, the average guys arent making enough to afford more complex cycles or hiring experts.
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby marvin8 on Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:01 am

jaime_g wrote:I know many fighters that use steroids and can pass "normal" drug testings. It depends on how often and how deep they are being tested.

Understood. However to say PEDs are prevalent in the UFC without the facts (numbers) is only a conjecture. The fact is a majority of UFC USADA drug tests came back negative, not positive.

jaime_g wrote:At lower professional levels it's enough to know when are you going to compete and get tested. They can planify their cycles around that. That is happening at low level competitions. Add more money and you get better drugs and coachs that can make magic happen.

UFC fighters getting caught is just because of sloppy planification or random testing, not a real problem if there is enough money around, but as Graham said, the average guys arent making enough to afford more complex cycles or hiring experts.

I addressed Graham's statements, "Pro MMA athletes getting busted for tainted samples is quite common. ... it’s also quite common they get caught (in the ufc)." There are a finite numbers of UFC fighters that took the test and failed the test ("got caught"). I believe the ones that failed are a small percentage of those tested.
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby dspyrido on Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:55 pm

The argument can go both ways. How do we know the numbers are accurately catching the number of people using various PEDS? How many are being missed? eg how long did it take to catch Lance Armstrong?

Anyway it was mentioned Google's your friend but here's the first link I got:

https://www.scrapdigest.com/full-list-fighters-records-usada-drug-testing/3801/2/

Now for heresay as I have friends who have used PEDs - they are not all the same and not linear. Many people might say certain athletes are genetic freaks gifted with 22" necks but who is to they are genetic freaks who did a serious bought of PEDs then came off them to get clean to pass tests. The muscle once created is not destroyed and can continue to be trained. PEDs are not just a sudden dose of courage but come in all shapes and sizes.

There's also cheating on tests. USADA has a good reputation but in the end money can change a lot of opinions.
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby marvin8 on Sun Jun 21, 2020 5:30 pm

jaime_g wrote:UFC fighters getting caught is just because of sloppy planification or random testing, not a real problem if there is enough money around, but as Graham said, the average guys arent making enough to afford more complex cycles or hiring experts.
dspyrido wrote:The argument can go both ways. How do we know the numbers are accurately catching the number of people using various PEDS? How many are being missed? eg how long did it take to catch Lance Armstrong? ...

There's also cheating on tests. USADA has a good reputation but in the end money can change a lot of opinions.

USADA does 365 days 24/7 random testing for the UFC. Fighters (e.g., TJ Dillashaw, Jon Jones, etc.) who could "afford more complex cycles or hiring experts" still tested positive, despite their money.

EsNews
Jan 14, 2019

(WHOA) Media Member Asks Victor Conte Does He Know How Fighters Can Pass A Drug Test:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ij_yVt0AtGw

dspyrido wrote:Anyway it was mentioned Google's your friend but here's the first link I got:

https://www.scrapdigest.com/full-list-fighters-records-usada-drug-testing/3801/2/

How many UFC fighters tested positive for PEDs but still lost their fight? For example, Henry Cejudo (tested negative) beat TJ Dillashaw (tested positive) by TKO.

dspyrido wrote:Now for heresay as I have friends who have used PEDs - they are not all the same and not linear. Many people might say certain athletes are genetic freaks gifted with 22" necks but who is to they are genetic freaks who did a serious bought of PEDs then came off them to get clean to pass tests. The muscle once created is not destroyed and can continue to be trained. PEDs are not just a sudden dose of courage but come in all shapes and sizes.

PEDs play a more important role in pure speed, strength and endurance sports (e.g., track & field, weightlifting, cycling) than MMA.

MMAWeekly.com
Dec 3, 2015

Conor McGregor on Drug Testing: 'It's A Flawed System:'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML7FAQ_a4fo

USADA Sanctions:
https://www.usada.org/news/sanctions/
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby dspyrido on Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:09 pm

Dillashaw lost that fight before he even stepped into the ring. PEDs are not supernatural and his weight cut turned him into a walking skeleton.

As for this ...

marvin8 wrote:PEDs play a more important role in pure speed, strength and endurance sports (e.g., track & field, weightlifting, cycling) than MMA.


Are you saying in a mma fight speed, strength and endurance is not important?
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby marvin8 on Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:16 am

dspyrido wrote:
marvin8 wrote:PEDs play a more important role in pure speed, strength and endurance sports (e.g., track & field, weightlifting, cycling) than MMA.


Are you saying in a mma fight speed, strength and endurance is not important?

No. I am saying there is a difference in raw sports that rely more on those attributes. Martial arts are supposed to help one defend against bigger, stronger or faster opponents through fighting skills (e.g., use opponent's force against themselves, etc.). Both McGregor (listen to his comments in video) and Cejudo won their fights by KO using their fighting skills/IQ while their opponents were allegedly on PEDs.

"He can have heart, he can hit harder and he can be stronger, but there's no fighter smarter than me." - Floyd Mayweather Jr.
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Re: Druggy in MMA

Postby Overlord on Mon Jun 22, 2020 2:51 am

Marvy,
I think Mark Hunt had pointed something serious, they should add one more clause in the contract.
And it’s so simple to do, that if fighters are caught cheating with drugs then all the money goes to the opponents.
Now until this is done, I really question UFC integrity and MMA as whole.
As CMA guy, I know pretty sure there is no need for most of us using roid ~ the most is herbs helping us healing.
Mark also pointed out that drugs enhance strength but not striking power, this means adding advantage to the wrestlers.

Cheers buddy.
Last edited by Overlord on Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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