Willie pep’s footwork

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Willie pep’s footwork

Postby Climb-up on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:40 pm

I just s I’m led upon this YouTube channel, and saw this video about Willie Pep’s footwork.
From the (admittedly very little) I know about boxing, this seems very unusual, and it reminds me of Bagua footwork.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=you ... NMcp3n0IQg
Last edited by Climb-up on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Willie pep’s footwork

Postby klonk on Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:41 pm

I am not sure I see the connection to bagua. Then again, I have never really understood bagua, so you may see more here than I do. I think the video you posted makes too much of the times when he put his feet close together to change leads and directions. It gives the impression he did it all the time. I do not think other videos of Pep wholly bear that out. Putting your feet close together is not well thought of in Western boxing, because it makes you easier to knock down. I see less of it in this compilation, from a different source, also on Pep's footwork. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLOIgphTN8c

Pep being versatile as to which foot carried his weight, and being free about direction changes, reminds me a bit of taiji.

Okay, who wants to step up to say Pep rediscovered xingyi? Oh, wait, that was Dempsey.
Last edited by klonk on Sat Aug 29, 2020 6:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Willie pep’s footwork

Postby Finny on Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:17 pm

He was the best with his feet.

Like Klonk, not sure I see a BGZ connection but then I don't do BGZ.

Thank you for posting - a really interesting clip.
Last edited by Finny on Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Willie pep’s footwork

Postby Climb-up on Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:44 am

I mean, just to clarify, I’m not saying that I would look at him and think he was doing Bagua; just that some of the stuff he is doing is done in Bagua (and other martial arts) and isn’t done that much in boxing and it’s cool to see how effective it can be by a skilled fighter. I only mention Bagua specifically because that’s what I’m working on now, and the rapid direction changes, switching lead and ending up behind an opponent are characteristic of Bagua.
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Re: Willie pep’s footwork

Postby Climb-up on Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:47 am

klonk wrote:
Okay, who wants to step up to say Pep rediscovered xingyi? Oh, wait, that was Dempsey.


I think Tim Cartmell says Dempsey’s book is the best Xingyi manual ever written!
...I’m not super interested in Xingyi, but that caught my attention and made we want to check out the book! I remember reading his instructions on the jab along time ago and thinking it was really good.
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Re: Willie pep’s footwork

Postby Trick on Sun Aug 30, 2020 8:59 pm

It’s the “wholstic” training method that makes up what is XYQ, orBGZ, or TJQ or.........if onehappen to perfectly aligne fist/knuckleand forearm and do a good timed falling step when hitting something(one) it’s not automatically result from XYQ practice... Dempsey’s book is not the bestXYQ manual ever written....but it’s a very good manual
Last edited by Trick on Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Willie pep’s footwork

Postby Climb-up on Sun Aug 30, 2020 11:15 pm

Trick wrote:It’s the “wholstic” training method that makes up what is XYQ, orBGZ, or TJQ or.........if onehappen to perfectly aligne fist/knuckleand forearm and do a good timed falling step when hitting something(one) it’s not automatically XYQ, Dempsey’s book is not the bestXYQ manual ever written....but it’s a very good manual


I checked the quote and he does not say it’s the best xingyi manual, he said it is the best book on xingyi striking mechanics you could ever read.

I apologize if my initial reference misrepresented his POV, the actual quote is far more specific. Since Tim Cartmell has trained extensively in classical xingyi I figured it was clear that wouldn’t have literally been saying it was a xingyi manual.
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Re: Willie pep’s footwork

Postby Bao on Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:03 am

Climb-up wrote:
I think Tim Cartmell says Dempsey’s book is the best Xingyi manual ever written!
...I’m not super interested in Xingyi, but that caught my attention and made we want to check out the book! I remember reading his instructions on the jab along time ago and thinking it was really good.



Yes, that was Cartmell. It's maybe not totally XY-ish, but Dempsey's clear, precise instructions are gold.

From Championship Fighting Explosive Punching and Aggressive Defense by Jack Dempsey

"At any rate, I CAME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT SELF-DEFENSE IS BEING TAUGHT WRONG NEARLY EVERYWHERE, FOR THE FOLLOWING MAJOR REASONS:

1. Beginners are not grounded in the four principal methods of putting the body-weight into fast motion: (a) FALLING STEP, (b) LEG SPRING, (c) SHOULDER WHIRL, (d) UPWARD SURGE.

2. The extremely important POWER LINE in punching seems to have been forgotten.

....

4. Explosive straight punching has become almost a lost art because instructors place so much emphasis on shoulder whirl that beginners are taught wrongfully to punch straight 'without stepping whenever possible.

5. Failure to teach the FALLING STEP ("trigger step") for straight punching has resulted in the LEFT JAB being used generally as a light, auxiliary weapon for making openings and "setting up," instead of as a stunning blow.

....



Best of all the punches is the "stepping straight jolt," delivered with either fist from the "falling step." It has fall, spring and whirl.
That stepping jolt must not be confused with the "ordinary straight punch" that is delivered at medium range without moving the feet, and that depends almost entirely on shoulder whirl. The stepping jolt is a much more explosive blow.


when you feel comfortable and relaxed-suddenly do the falling step toward the bag (Figure 13A), and as you step, make the following moves:

1. Shoot your loose, half-opened left hand straight along the power line at a chin-high spot on the bag.

2. But, as the relaxed left hand speeds toward the bag, suddenly close the hand with a convulsive, grabbing snap. Close it with such a terrific grab that when the second knuckle of the upright fist smashes into the bag, the fist and the arm and the shoulder will be "frozen" steel-hard by the terrific grabbing tension.
That convulsive, freezing grab is the explosion.

Try that long left jolt three or four times. Make certain each time that (1) you are completely relaxed before you step; (2) that your relaxed LEFT hand, in normal guarding position, is only half-closed; (3) that you make no preliminary movement with either your feet or your left hand. Do not draw back-or "cock"-the relaxed left hand in a preparatory movement that you hope will give the punch more zing. Don't do that! You'll not only telegraph the blow, but you'll slow up and weaken the punch.


The book Jack Dempsey's Championship Fighting... also has a chapter on footwork that would be a suitable read for this topic. Here's the whole book in PDF-format. Just download and keep it:
https://newschoolsinger.com/wp-content/ ... ting-1.pdf
Last edited by Bao on Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Willie pep’s footwork

Postby Climb-up on Mon Aug 31, 2020 12:00 pm

Nice!!!
Thank you so much! -bow-
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