TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

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TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby Bao on Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:35 am

The grandson of Tian Zhaolin in Shanghai. What do you think?

Personally I find the coiling and compactness interesting.

Between 1.05 to 2.00. Better just skip directly to 1.05 ;)

https://youtu.be/eVvxJ3o3uro?t=65

Last edited by Bao on Tue Sep 01, 2020 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby edededed on Tue Sep 01, 2020 2:34 am

Looks very interesting, definitely would love to learn it if I had the opportunity ;)
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Re: TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby Shinobi on Fri Oct 02, 2020 3:58 pm

Here's another, longer video of him. I find this form fascinating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO8eRcpoJIE&t=3s
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Re: TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby Trick on Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:16 pm

I seen some Tian Zhaolin forms on youku, is say all the variations I seen are a form of “free styling” that comes around after “deeper” understandings, however they all stem from the “basic” Yang family form....if one does not have that first step correct, then to get to the “Tian Zhaolin level” might be impossible...
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Re: TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby Bao on Sat Oct 03, 2020 1:55 am

Trick wrote:I seen some Tian Zhaolin forms on youku, is say all the variations I seen are a form of “free styling” that comes around after “deeper” understandings, however they all stem from the “basic” Yang family form....if one does not have that first step correct, then to get to the “Tian Zhaolin level” might be impossible...


The second video was taken from tudou.com. Maybe you can search for it there?
The name of the video on YouTube: 田兆麟傳楊式中架太極拳 田秉淵

If you watch it first it will be a more interesting discussion. I really like his more compact, coiling style. It's not just "basic yang style", his body method is different.
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- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
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Re: TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby Trick on Sat Oct 03, 2020 6:41 am

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:I seen some Tian Zhaolin forms on youku, is say all the variations I seen are a form of “free styling” that comes around after “deeper” understandings, however they all stem from the “basic” Yang family form....if one does not have that first step correct, then to get to the “Tian Zhaolin level” might be impossible...


The second video was taken from tudou.com. Maybe you can search for it there?
The name of the video on YouTube: 田兆麟傳楊式中架太極拳 田秉淵

If you watch it first it will be a more interesting discussion. I really like his more compact, coiling style. It's not just "basic yang style", his body method is different.

no, you misundetstand, im not saying the performance in the vid is basic yang style taijiquan, im saying to come to that "coiling stuff one first have to have gone through and mastered the basics of yang taijiquan(for example).......First master the large basic frame, then this stuff comes naturally out from that......it wont due to be totally blue and hope to learn/copy the methods performed on the vid, if done so one still withour a clue
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Re: TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby Shinobi on Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:57 am

So much on Youku and Soku! I don't think I've ever been on these before.

I know we can't know for sure and it doesn't really matter if you like it anyway, but I have a feeling a lot of what we see that was passed down from Tian Zhaolin is close to what Yang Jianhou's Tai Chi was like.
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Re: TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby Bao on Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:44 pm

Trick wrote:no, you misundetstand, im not saying the performance in the vid is basic yang style taijiquan, im saying to come to that "coiling stuff one first have to have gone through and mastered the basics of yang taijiquan(for example).......First master the large basic frame, then this stuff comes naturally out from that......


I do agree that large frame should be learned first. But I don’t think that what you see here comes naturally out if this. Most people who practice ‘the large basic frame’ looks like they still just practice ‘the large basic frame’ after 20, 30, 40 years. They don’t change. This “coiling stuff” /Shenfa breaks quite a few of the ‘rules’ of the standard ‘large basic frame‘ practice. I.e. leaning, bending the spine, lifting the elbows and even shoulders. You need to practice on breaking those rules and you need the correct guidance from someone who can show you in a way that it makes sense.

Shinobi wrote:I have a feeling a lot of what we see that was passed down from Tian Zhaolin is close to what Yang Jianhou's Tai Chi was like.


I don’t want to speculate about Yang Jianhou, but it certainly have characteristics of Tai Chi practices that are presumably older than Yang Chengfu and modern Yang style variations.
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Re: TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby Trick on Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:21 pm

Bao wrote:
Trick wrote:no, you misundetstand, im not saying the performance in the vid is basic yang style taijiquan, im saying to come to that "coiling stuff one first have to have gone through and mastered the basics of yang taijiquan(for example).......First master the large basic frame, then this stuff comes naturally out from that......


I do agree that large frame should be learned first. But I don’t think that what you see here comes naturally out if this. Most people who practice ‘the large basic frame’ looks like they still just practice ‘the large basic frame’ after 20, 30, 40 years. They don’t change. This “coiling stuff” /Shenfa breaks quite a few of the ‘rules’ of the standard ‘large basic frame‘ practice. I.e. leaning, bending the spine, lifting the elbows and even shoulders. You need to practice on breaking those rules and you need the correct guidance from someone who can show you in a way that it makes sense.

Shinobi wrote:I have a feeling a lot of what we see that was passed down from Tian Zhaolin is close to what Yang Jianhou's Tai Chi was like.


I don’t want to speculate about Yang Jianhou, but it certainly have characteristics of Tai Chi practices that are presumably older than Yang Chengfu and modern Yang style variations.
Yes there’s two possibilities, 1 they actually never practiced correctly, 2 they’ve got it but find no reason to visually release it while playing......On the other hand those who display it might just mimic things they’ve seen.
Ok I agree it’s possible to see to an level whether it’s mimic practice or “real performance”
The real practice performance comes from deep sinew/tendon pulling, while mimic practice is isolated surface muscles based...kind of..
The same comes true with the large “basic” frame practice too..one can very well practice the higher stuff within the large frame...within the large frame are all frames and methods...
Last edited by Trick on Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: TIan Zhaolin Taijiquan in Shanghai

Postby C.J.W. on Mon Oct 05, 2020 7:59 am

The forms look like a hybrid between Chen and Yang styles, which makes perfect sense considering the fact that Yang evolved from Chen.

What we have here might very well be the prototypic Yang style that still bears the characteristics of Chen style -- namely the overt coiling movements.
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