the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Good points

Liner,
You do realise there are many accusations, betrayal and conflicts by Hong’s students after his death?
This is why Oldest brother Hong Tiger doesn’t teach in public any more.
One of the accusations by students was Hong Yixiang changed his forms, in this context Xingyi.
What I am saying is GM Hong Yixiang had other teacher other than Zhang taught him and he added with very good reasons.
Elements of Guo, Song and even Old Dai three fists were infused in there and there of his teachings toward his later stages of life.

Wayne
Hsu was considered big betrayal by Hong’s.
Although later in Hong’s words “ if I had known him to die so soon, I would had accepted him coming back”.
That was his sentiment to Hsu after Hsu passed away, Hong was quite sad and wanted to forgive.

Hong had evolved his skills during three stages of his students.
First stage student includes Hsu.
Second stage students includes Su and Luo. Each student were taught specific lethal moves.
Third stage was about the time when he went to Australia and teach.
It’s around this time Hong has deeper insight of things.

Overlord, i have no connection with Hong's lineage, but heard a few things from friends who are in Zhang's line.

My comments about inner door are general, not about Hong.

Thank you for the information, Hong was clearly a skilled Neijia fighter and had several teachers apart from Zhang.

The thing with Huang and HSU was about teaching on US bases
When he came to Australia he wasn’t here for long

I once knew a guy who was in the training sessions with Hung in the early eighties here in Australia.

When i asked him how he was he said "he wasn't the quickest but he knew what you were going to do and was there before you"

He said he was very good, and strong. Very deceiving.

With respect to Pi Chuan most people do it like Beng. Its just a straight move, and rigid too.

What i liked most about Hung is that he was focused on training hard and he seemed to constantly learning.

. I mentioned earlier about the clips being more wood than metal was not about the internal that doesn't waver and goes without saying
It is about external structure and application
If they have the same energy there is no need for 5 just have 4
If it is about the internal don't have 5 this is Yi chuan

It’s stages, step by step, to carefully build the fundamental, at the top of the staircase you get the method “one has them all” kind of.
In Yiquan there are stages too.

When one got it, ones own personal practice might look different from what one teach, so if one is an teacher one should probably be careful practicing in public, wrong ideas on how to do most certainly will come around by onlookers.

My friend just emailed me this, which made me laugh out loud.

"the discussion on people doing trademark moves or teaching forms wrong
only possible in magical world where martial arts are actually reduced to solo forms
and used once every 50 years"

He might just have a point. lol

Yes there might be no such thing as teacher teaching wrong forms so to hide the real stuff.....might be more likely there being impatient students thinking that scrub the floor won’t lead to anything. Even when at “hammer the nail level” they may say teacher hiding the real stuff...

"Side stepping the issue of “authenticity” for a moment (a topic complex enough to deserve a post in its own right), I have real doubts that the pure expression of anything is really linked to its oldest form (or better yet, our best attempt to recreate it).

The truth is that things change for a reason. Historically speaking, all martial arts, almost without exception, have been forced to reinvent themselves in every generation in order to survive. Every true Sifu or Sensei instructs his or her students not just to be a clone, but to rise to ever greater heights. And occasionally this actually happens. As a result our arts change, grow and evolve over time. They adapt to new markets and new economic conditions almost continually. What was done in the late 1700s or the mid-Ming dynasty can never truly be replicated today. Deal with it, and consider some other ways of defining “authenticity.”

B. Judkins: https://chinesemartialstudies.com/2020/ ... ng-chun-2/

Has been some time since I've watched OPs video, my connection on mobile is crap.
But isn't the XingYi Gentleman doing a part of his line drill on frozen floor? Seems slippery
And you can see his dragon claws iirc

yes its a quite wintery scene in the OP vid, the old gentleman is quite dressed for the season, probably wearing at least two long johns under wadded winter pants, a couple of shirts and a sweater under a long parka....moves pretty ok despite

Overlord
Thanks for the clip. You're right, Hung's pichuan is unique and this clip really shows it off! The way the hip pulls back when the hand retreats back, the fist rising up the front and twisting, the fist going forth from the mouth. I could go on..but you get the idea.

Bill wrote:Overlord
Thanks for the clip. You're right, Hung's pichuan is unique and this clip really shows it off! The way the hip pulls back when the hand retreats back, the fist rising up the front and twisting, the fist going forth from the mouth. I could go on..but you get the idea.

thats part of the very basic way how i learned from my teacher in dalian.....

Good for you! You received good basics.