the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Interesting collection of training methods.

I would love to know what some of the Hsing I experts of here think of this

My opinion is that he doesn't understand the traditional version of xing yi beng quan. It's like watching somebody try to do a freestyle piano solo without spending the time to do the basic exercises.

If he dropped references to Xing Yi and just talked about "beng" I guess he's doing... something? It's a very loose interpretation of the "beng" though. I think this guy is related to Su Dong Chen's school. Some people here seem to like Su Dong Chen but I've always felt Su's style is so loosely based on Xing Yi / Bagua / Tai ji that he should just call it something new.

Isn’t the guy a RSF member? Thought so anyway. He should be able to speak for himself. Anyway, I won’t comment on the quality of the performance, if it’s good or bad XY. But I will share a few general thoughts about the practice seen here.

I am not a XY expert, but I did study XY for many years. I really like the way here of exploring body movement and possibilities. But at the same, I believe it contradicts actual bengquan practice, and I am not sure this is good if you want to actually study the Beng fist. Xingyi practice is very narrow and precise. Practicing the Xing Yi five fists could be compared to Chinese calligraphy when you study to draw the eight basic calligraphy strokes. When you practicing drawing those strokes, you need absolute precision and focus. Understanding the precision needed is a practice by itself. If you fool around with the brush trying to explore possibilities, you have missed the whole idea about why you should practice In an exact and precise manner and you just won’t develop the skills necessary to become good at calligraphy. By experimenting and exploring, you might want to believe that your calligraphy will become vital and achieve a sense of Freedom. But compared to a good painter who has travelled the long, strict traditional road, your calligraphy will look clumsy, restrained and childish. It’s always the traditional, strict, precise approach that eventually will teach the practitioner a freedom of movement.

So exploring body movement is fine, but it’s another thing than practicing Xingyi, and I don’t believe that exploring body movement should be mixed with a practice that is designed to be exact and precise. Those are two very different types of practices and should be clearly separated.

BTW, from what I have seen from him so far from Su Dongchen, I would suggest that Bagua Is his main interest.

I think it's funky. I like it.

It's a good exercise in torishilteen. (A Mongolian word I've just butchered the spelling of [in another example of torshilteen] - it means something like 'experimentation in the spirit of play'.)

Here's an interesting philisophical debate one man is having with himself about the importance of correct technique, which may be relevant, or not, to this thread.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-RbNWG ... e=youtu.be

Don't think it's about technique as such, just don't see how the original video is training the multiple jins such as lifting (tiao), pressing (ya), sideways (heng / bo) which are what really make Beng work. Anyone can do a straight punch and call it Beng.

zrm wrote: I've always felt Su's style is so loosely based on Xing Yi / Bagua / Tai ji that he should just call it something new.

Essence of Evolution could be a name for his way ? (Topics headline -EoE)

In reference to what is shown...

If anyone wants to learn bung then practise bung countless number of times before attempting to extrapolate it into something it's not in the hope of discovering the essence.

Btw how hard is the essence of something that is aka crushing force?

dspyrido wrote:Btw how hard is the essence of something that is aka crushing force?

It's about as hard as drawing a perfect circle freehand.

zrm wrote:

dspyrido wrote:Btw how hard is the essence of something that is aka crushing force?

It's about as hard as drawing a perfect circle freehand.

Sure but the essence of the perfect circle doesnt change. Also along the way to learning to draw a circle it's best to practise drawing a circle.

The legend around bung defines XY. Drill the same thing many many times to get it. Variations flow but without the drilling it will miss the real power of a body moving as a coordinated, focused & conditioned unit.

dspyrido wrote:In reference to what is shown...

If anyone wants to learn bung then practise bung countless number of times before attempting to extrapolate it into something it's not in the hope of discovering the essence.

Btw how hard is the essence of something that is aka crushing force?

I think the “crushing” may be misleading for many, practitioners may drill Beng wrongly and never get it, focusing too much on ones own physical/muscular performance for “power generation”, this truly missing the essence of Beng and will never be crushingly workable

Trick wrote:I think the “crushing” may be misleading for many, practitioners may drill Beng wrongly and never get it, focusing too much on ones own physical/muscular performance for “power generation”, this truly missing the essence of Beng and will never be crushingly workable

Bung (& all forms) must be drilled right.

Understanding these little physical tweaks is a journey itself. Then being able to apply them seamlessly needs time and effort. As the coordination is baked into the movement can the body's components (muscles/tendons etc.) be specifically conditioned which will result in what looks effortless yet hits like a truck. Along the way tactics and techniques must be learnt but this is useless without being able to express crushing power.

To get this bung must be drilled right.

For something so simple I find it hard to believe how many people just don't get it

wayne hansen wrote:For something so simple I find it hard to believe how many people just don't get it

People always tend to complicate things and mostly have a hard time to understand the simplicity of things.