Jiang Yu Shan - 4 years no sex, alcohol or meat

[Bhassler]

And both have a bite to them ;) Either I haven't pitted enough scary people against MMA fighters in the cage or... what would be the preferred fighting area for a scary one, precisely? Of course you can use the environment to your advantage. Ring fighting could be said to be a clean combative experiment in the sense that the rules wittle the situation down to skill only.

My point is if 'you' are so advanced in the arts of violence and martial culture, then any hand to hand scenario would be easy. Same as a chess master against amateur.

What makes a person scary?

You can break down for yourself where you think TMA/MMA would come into play in any of these videos. Note that they are fairly graphic.







What makes a person scary is mindset and experience. It's worth noting that sometimes that experience comes with a permanent price in terms of physical injury. The same things that make a person scary often would make them actually less effective in a sport format.

To tie it back to the original topic, if this guy truly was a bodyguard, then it was likely honorary or political. Same with whatever interaction he may or may not have had with any special forces group. Actually physically fighting hand to hand has almost nothing to do with modern military operations, and absolutely fuck-all to do with bodyguard work. The bodyguard's job is to see and avoid trouble before it happens, and if it does happen their job is then to move their client out of harm's way and, if necessary, use themselves as a shield. It has nothing to do with staying and fighting.

[Bhassler]

All that said, if this looks like what "you" want to learn, and you think you can learn it from the videos and it's worth the price, go for it...

[AJG]

ok now that we are all happy that we know what bodyguards do and that special forces and street fighting are really really different does anyone have any thoughts on why the performance in the mma clip wasn't up to what may have been expected

My thoughts

1. He is a monkey master but i don't see any evasion that should be a characteristic of that style. He has obviously practiced a long time but the slip suggests movement wasn't embedded
2. Does he practice forms and then kickboxes when it comes to sparring. If that is the case that explains point 1 but then why practice point 1. Any monkey experts care to add their thoughts?
3. He seemed almost deliberately slow. Was there an over confidence factor here (well at least until the point he got clipped) ?

Again good on him for getting in there and i'm sure he has thought about the lessons learned. The beauty of the internet is that we can learn lessons too from other peoples experiences.

[Quigga]

Is it so different when It's always people interacting with each other?

[Steve James]

If he gave up sex (hopefully he's single or with an understanding partner), alcohol, and meat so that he could compete, imo it wasn't worth it. But, to each his own. If he gave up those things to live as a monk, why would he stop at four years?

Afa preparing for bouts, yeah, women are distractions. But, I think the loss of energy would come from losing training time (because of romantic nights when a pro should be resting). In any case, even if 100% of boxers abstain, 50% will lose their bouts anyway. Of course, some boxers use up a lifetime of "essence" very quickly after their bouts. Not a few had more than a few girlfriends.

Fwiw, afa meat, Anthony Joshua was the first Vegan pro champ. Tyson turned Vegan after his career, until he started training for the Roy Jones thing.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

If he gave up sex (hopefully he's single or with an understanding partner), alcohol, and meat so that he could compete, imo it wasn't worth it.

Well, the principal claim he makes is that he did it in order to achieve superpowers and surpass all other masters of martial arts and chi gung. They don't look to have translated very well into the ring, though.

[Bhassler]

My thoughts

1. He is a monkey master but i don't see any evasion that should be a characteristic of that style. He has obviously practiced a long time but the slip suggests movement wasn't embedded
2. Does he practice forms and then kickboxes when it comes to sparring. If that is the case that explains point 1 but then why practice point 1. Any monkey experts care to add their thoughts?
3. He seemed almost deliberately slow. Was there an over confidence factor here (well at least until the point he got clipped) ?

Again good on him for getting in there and i'm sure he has thought about the lessons learned. The beauty of the internet is that we can learn lessons too from other peoples experiences.

How is he a monkey "master" if his movements don't reflect the characteristics of the style and he can't use them in application? Perhaps people should revisit what the word "master" means.

He's pretty good at breaking things and hitting static objects really, really hard. Other than that, his stories don't seem to hold up to scrutiny, and his martial art seems pretty pedestrian. I liked his stuff from 10 years ago when he was just a monkey-themed hard qigong guy. Now all of a sudden he's a mystical guru-sifu-soke-grandmaster who knows all the things and no one else knows them and he's super careful of who he teaches but you can buy it online for thousands of dollars. I'm not sure why people feel the need to defend him or can't see the writing on the wall about what's going on with this guy, but to each their own, I guess.

[Ian C. Kuzushi]

he's a mystical guru-sifu-soke-grandmaster who knows all the things and no one else knows them and he's super careful of who he teaches but you can buy it online for thousands of dollars.

Excellent summation.

[wayne hansen]

I could never see the monkey in either his build or movement
He does what he does well
If he is as deadly as he makes out some of it should have transferred to the ring
I can't workout why people buy into so many of the online courses they do
This one is most likely no worse than most of the others out there
It is hard enough to pass on skills on a one to one basis
Anyone selling on line is doing it for a buck the same goes for the semina circuit
If you have the money and desire
Go ahead

[Doc Stier]

Sadly, many martial arts teachers with longterm experience succumb to the praise and adulation of students and close friends over time, thus becoming a legend in their own minds, without ever realizing that self-delusion is the greatest illusion of all.

Unless they break out of the protective bubble and perpetual echo chamber of their immediate inner circle of students and admirers, a reality check will usually never occur.

With all due respect for Jiang Yu Shan, I don't know whether this is true for him or not, as I have only seen him in his videos, but have never met him in person or ever had any physical interaction with him. Anyone can lose a fight, regardless of their skill level or experience, so I would be reluctant to totally dismiss him as an opponent on the basis of one fight video. Just saying!

[AJG]

so i think self delusion plays a big part here. Not going outside the bubble to really understand and challenge what you are practicing.

Now don't get me wrong i think the CMA have some wonderful aspects to them. That said culturally the idea of staying in your bubble and not critiquing what you do and how you do it plagues the arts.

And small schools fare the worst because you don't have enough people (including people of calibre) to help one develop.

You have to mix and even harder mix in a way that helps you practice your material (and learn some other good shit while doing it)

[marvin8]

And both have a bite to them Either I haven't pitted enough scary people against MMA fighters in the cage or... what would be the preferred fighting area for a scary one, precisely? Of course you can use the environment to your advantage. Ring fighting could be said to be a clean combative experiment in the sense that the rules wittle the situation down to skill only.

My point is if 'you' are so advanced in the arts of violence and martial culture, then any hand to hand scenario would be easy. Same as a chess master against amateur.

What makes a person scary?

You can break down for yourself where you think TMA/MMA would come into play in any of these videos. Note that they are fairly graphic.

TMA/MMA comes into play in "hand to hand scenarios." There are observable, trained skills that are transferrable and can effect the outcome of a fight. If missing from competition/training, they will likely be missing in the street (e.g., news article I posted). These martial skills include:

4. Using jin in pushing hands and fighting

One common mistake for many people is that they try to use fa jin too directly. They just want to use their jin to beat their opponents as hard as possible. But in real Taiji Quan skill, throwing jin should never be used alone.
The complete process consists of five steps:

1. Ting – listen: feel or detect what the opponent want to do,
2. Hua – melt or dissolve: neutralize the attacking force,
3. Yin – lure: give the opponent false impressions, making him feel like he can get you, and leading him to go where you want him to go,
4. Nia - hold or control: get the opponent under your control (usually means keep him off-balanced), and
5. Fa - release a throwing force: attack.

... In order to be true Taiji skill, the first four steps must be present.

Excerpts from "Monkey Master in the Cage:"

After several hours of forms and body hardening exercises, Hisham begins his daily ritual of bag work, running, weight lifting, and wrestling with a 50 kg dummy. This the training that won him the International San Da Wang championship last year, and the one which he hopes will carry him on to a repeat win of San Da Wang, followed by the Art of War in China, and eventually landing him in the UFC or K-1. ...

During his search for a monkey master, Hisham found a lot of so called masters, but they weren’t fighting.

“In Germany there is a branch of Wing Chun which made their name fighting like the Gracies did. They challenged everyone and won. So, now there is no question. We all know Gracie jiu Jitsu is good. Some people say you shouldn’t fight, it is against the code. But how do you know what level you are at if you don’t fight? I want to fight in MMA and K-1 because there aren’t many Chinese or traditional martial arts in there. I think in the beginning there were a few, but I don’t know if they had thirty years of experience. When you meet MMA guys, Thai boxers, and boxers, if you tell them you do TMA, they look at you and smile. ...”

Hisham has many reasons for wanting to fight on the world stage. “First, I want to prove if this thing I made up works or not."

[Overlord]

The main focus of this thread is to discuss the significance of celibacy. If there is a need for it.
However, it now becomes clear Webfu masters want to first discredit Jiang first just by looking at his video, and derailed the topic.
I don’t know this master.
But honestly, had you accomplished what he had?
I mean it’s always easy to making comments about others, but how about exam oneself first.

Honestly I had never seen Muaythai masters got such a treatment (by other fellow Muaythai practitioners)no matter how bad they performed in a fight. It’s constantly a cheer.

If you want to fight in MMA match and win please go ahead and prove your CMA skills. But stop bad mouthing about others skills, regiments and traditions.

And yes in Taiwan they do intermingle Baji with military. And what you see is not what you get. It’s art of war.

[Quigga]

Lol, who says that sexual celibacy is the main focus of this thread? Maybe it's what you want to talk about or redirect the topic in this direction?

I once thought it's a special thing, now I don't. Sexual desire is part of human nature and you can do many things with it. Repressing it is one. Skilfully transforming it is another - but ironically sexual pleasure is part of that transformation.

In Muay Thai it's simple, you see what you get and you get what you see. In IMA or meditation or whatever a lot of BS has accumulated. There's a need for quality control.

[Quigga]

You can't escape reality, only accept in it's entirety.